The Framework has accessed the speech of Executive Pastor Kevin Manning of Casey City Church. You can listen the entire speech or read the transcript below.
Revealing the Truth: A Church Under Judgment
In this deeply introspective delivery, Executive Pastor Kevin Manning of Casey City Church references biblical scriptures to highlight the moral and ethical failures of Larry Sebastian. By quoting Luke 6:45, Luke 3:8, and 1 Timothy chapter 5, the speaker underscores the consistent pattern of unrepentance and misconduct by the Senior Pastor and Co-Pastor. They discuss the findings of an interim elders’ investigation that identified multiple areas where the leadership has fallen short of biblical qualifications. The speaker calls for their resignation and insists on the need for comprehensive support for former staff and members who have been wronged. This video is a stark call for accountability and true repentance within the church community.
00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks
00:06 Biblical References and Teachings
00:39 Church’s History and Current State
02:43 Interim Eldership and Investigations
04:35 Findings and Accusations
07:34 Pastoral Qualifications and Failures
11:35 Conclusions and Recommendations
15:24 Final Thoughts and Call to Action
Source: The Framework, YouTube, Kevin Manning – Casey City Church – Execution Speech – YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrn6OrelvSc,
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] For those of you that stayed to listen, thank you. I appreciate it. Luke 6: 45, 47 says, A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good, and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. But why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say?
Whoever comes to me and hears my sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like. And then Christ goes on to talk about the foundations that we build our lives on. This church is repeatedly falling down. This is our history. It is not something that is ambiguous. It is obvious. I believe this house is under judgment.
And. I believe that it will continue to fall down in the same
[00:01:00] manner in which it has always continued to fall down. Read to you Luke chapter 3 verse 8, where John the Baptist says, “Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’, for I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.”
I do not see in the Senior Pastor and the Co-Pastor as people that bear fruit worthy of repentance. In the investigation of the interim elders, it was clear that they do not repent. The pattern stretched back too far. The pattern we have today, the pattern we had back then, it’s the same and it’s consistent.
[00:02:00] Luke chapter 3 verse 9, says, “And even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore, every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” This church, I believe, is a church in name only. I believe we have been building with both hay and stubble that will not stand before God on the day of judgment. I believe that in the end, what will come to this house will be great ruin because there is no fruit that’s worthy of repentance in those who lead it. The interim eldership was something that when the State Leader asked me, what do you think we should do? I said, we needed to form an interim eldership made up of independent, external people, [00:03:00] fully qualified, well-respected to come in and to investigate things, to establish what the truth is, and then to hand down their findings.
And he said, how should we do that? And I said, we need to write a brief of scope. The phrase ‘interim eldership’ is mine. The brief of scope is mine.
Now, the eldership had a meeting afterwards, sometime a couple of weeks later. And it was decided by the Senior Pastor, his wife, his brother-in-law and one other unrelated elder, that an interim eldership should be formed. I had been asked by the State Leader in an email. There were emails going back and forth between myself and the Senior Pastor. Who do you think should be involved on the interim eldership? I offered only one suggestion. I offered him as an archetype. I don’t know this man. The Senior [00:04:00] Pastor doesn’t know him. The co-pastor doesn’t know him. So he was independent. He was an example of the kind of independence that we needed to have on an interim eldership to come in and to investigate things.
Those that were offered up as examples were those that the Senior Pastor was familiar with. Good people. They all came in and they all did their job under very difficult circumstances. Neither if there are sides, neither my side nor your side made it easy on them. I want to read to you some of the interim elder’s findings that were read at the second meeting, there were more than 60 people in that room. There were more than 30 people watching online. And there were another 25 people who had asked to receive the video. All of them, people that have gone under this bus, that is this church.
[Heading: THESE ARE THE INTERIM ELDERS WORDS]
Are the charges against the Senior Pastor and his wife [00:05:00] legitimate? And what should be the outcome of that? The first day that I was in the church there, I read this passage to the ones who were gathered from 1st Timothy chapter 5, which I accepted as the responsibility I would carry if I was going to get involved in this.
It says, “Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought to you by two or three witnesses. But those elders who are sending you are to reprove before everyone so that the others may take warning. I charge you in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels to keep these instructions without partiality and to do nothing out of favoritism.”
And just reading that passage each time, I’ve done it. There are his words – they would make your heart tremble because you realized you’re carrying a responsibility.
“I charge you in the sight of God and in the sight of Christ Jesus, and then the elect angels get involved…”
Thank you very much.
That’s my examination board. Again, I’m [00:06:00] quoting from the interim eldership report there. And as a result, I’m required to keep these instructions of assessing the appropriateness of an elder without partiality and to show no favoritism. Over the months, we have received over 30 statements from past and present members. Some of these stories go back all the way to 2011 and historic reports – In fact, we found them to be of significant value. The significance of the older statements is to begin to see the kind of things that have been struggled with over an extended period of time, and to see whether anything has actually changed. And the reality is that the story from at least 2011 onwards is very consistent.
We have engaged with letters of resignation in which former members and elders have explained in significant detail why they have reluctantly resigned. And the unfortunate but consistent theme has been the treatment of people at the hands of the Senior Pastor and to a lesser [00:07:00] extent his wife.
I don’t see the Senior Pastor as a bad man. He’s a damaging man but I don’t see him as a bad man. And I feel profoundly for the co-pastor, his wife. And under pressure it is demonstrated that he damages people. In our heart for his wife, co-pastor, has been whatever personality issues she has, it has been complicated by trying to be a good Christian wife in an atmosphere that she has not personally created.
We sought to assess the significance of the experiences of the past and present members. But put them in the light of Scripture, and the Scripture we’ve chosen are the 31 qualifications of pastors and elders as expressed in 1 Timothy, Titus and Peter. The challenge you’d think, well, can anyone be a pastor? And the answer is, it is a challenge. It isn’t a calling for everyone. And it’s not supposed to be a calling for everybody. And it’s supposed [00:08:00] to be a list of qualifications that are not ignored because people in authority do more damage than people who are not in authority. People who have charge over other people in positions of authority have the potential in their mistakes to do more damage than people who do not have the same flaws or the same authority.
He goes on to talk about his 31 qualifications. I’ll read them to you. These are the ones that the Senior Pastor fails on.
In the light of the 31 qualifications, we found that in at least 12 of them, the Founding Pastor is a deficient and disqualified pastor.
I want to repeat that.
Your Senior Leader is a deficient and disqualified pastor. One who does not lord over or domineer the flock. There are far too many stories that speak to that issue. Sensible and prudent, not given to whims, pendulum swings of emotion, attitudes or [00:09:00] perspectives. Far too many stories in which decisions are made ad hoc, even formally made decisions are overruled.
People who have been given authority suddenly discovering that their authority has been taken away, criticised for a failure. Having been delegated a responsibility for which they were never trained. The swings in moods and the attitudes and perspectives produced very, very confused and shamed people.
A good example to the flock, a person which others can imitate with confidence. Sometimes that would be true. Other times you wouldn’t want your husband to speak to a wife in the way sometimes in public and in meetings the Senior Pastor has done to his wife. Not quick tempered, too many stories about him being quick to anger, easily provoked, temperate, not given to unwise, self-serving, or self-consuming extremes, too many stories of unpredictability, [00:10:00] and upright, just, and righteous, too many stories about decisions having been made that just lack the smell of justice, and of righteousness, and uprightness. Too often decisions are made around the degree to which a person is approved of, or seen to be on the team, or the right kind of person to be treated with kindness.
Too often decisions made that were not, in the eyes of those involved, a righteous or a just decision to make. Gentle, well again, patience, gracious, considerateness, kindness and forgiveness – all too many stories about those humiliating moments in which a person might be even behind closed doors and one-on-one encounters treated in a way that would leave a person coming out of that office in tears or trembling, shaken and needing the assistance of others before they left the building. Because of the humiliation, the shame, the feelings of having been [00:11:00] beaten, given a beating in the headmaster’s office.
Not self willed. Too often, stories of simply making decisions that had never been appropriately agreed to, or reversing decisions that had been appropriately agreed to.
Above reproach, of good reputation. In both inside and outside the church, too many stories for there to be a reputation that’s unbroken inside and outside the church.
And at times, not dignified, not respectable, or well behaved. The summary that we brought to the church this morning and we bring to you today is that while this is a man who sincerely wants to serve, God; has a genuine vision and ministry and desire in his heart, but who all too often is involved in hypocrisy, appearance management, uses fear as a controlling mechanism is inconsistent to the point of distress to those who have to work alongside him; is deaf to what [00:12:00] he does not want to hear and is willing to both humiliate and intimidate. Out of that, we charged the church today that there is a culture that exists that is constitutional in word, but not in practice.
Now, these guys came and did this without fear or without favour. And I can attest that they did it without fear or without favour. And they did it with great conviction and at great cost to them personally. The elderships conclusion and the interim elderships conclusion, they asked for the Senior Pastor’s resignation. They offered a pastoral solution with a gracious way out to both of them. They offered to stay on and see what could be salvaged. They were keen to see if restoring of victims could happen in this community, and they also wanted to see how many jobs that could be saved.
And if good governance could be something that this [00:13:00] church could attain to, something which these lawyers in front of us have plenty of experience with. And I hope that your legal representative is successful in what it is that he is working on. It is desperately needed.
The trust was set up. Thank God. Thank you for that. Victims are applying. Only the cost of counselling is covered, and there are limits to the duration and the amount of cost covered per family, but it’s something. Restoring former employees and some former church members will require more than simply counselling, though.
There is a loss of income, earnings, and reputation for many of them. I can tell you that this church has treated some of its ex-employees with utter disdain. The Senior Pastor hates so well that he sabotages the ability of those who leave, [00:14:00] telling them, [sighs] there are people who leave and it’s not enough that they leave. There’s a price that they must pay for having criticized him or told him the truth about himself before they depart.
It’s disgraceful.
You still have more work to do in this area. We have all enabled this. And we are all responsible to clean it up. What I’m currently seeking to do as an elder and a board member and what I’ve been trying to do is that financial questions arose early on in the process. There was nothing in the brief of scope for the interim elders to look into anything financial, and there was nothing in their skills or their abilities that would have really enabled them to do that. Those financial questions [00:15:00] that arose, I realised, that I don’t want to knock on the door in the future that something questionable or illegal has been done in my name with my name on the ACNC’s website. Therefore, I am responsible to do my best to make more than a reasonable effort to ascertain whether or not something has. So I’m exercising my last responsibility today as a good shepherd, to give you true warning. I believe if you vote me out today, I truly believe that there’s no way back for this church There’s certainly a point of no return for the unrepentant.
The future judgment of God on this church; your pastors are disqualified for ministry and as elders and overseers. They have failed when measured by their eminently more qualified and reputable friends. Friends, they invited and empowered and then disempowered and rejected, and that’s on you, it’s [00:16:00] on all of us.
I believe this vote today is a point of no return. In no small sense, their sins may now become your own. There’s a stench in this place, and it’s a spiritual stench, and it’s a stain on all of us. We’ve had both reportable and non-reportable offenses. The elders have dealt, the interim elders dealt with most of the non-reportable offenses, but the reportable offenses, those mandatory reporting items, fell to me to report.
Mandatory reporting is a civil law consistent with Jesus words about the millstone tied around the neck. Read it for yourself in Matthew 18:16, you know what it says. I have not failed in this duty.
[00:17:00] Your lawyer is quick to explain repeatedly how an incorporated entity operates. It is his area of expertise, an area of our grotesque failures. We desperately need this man to be able to do his job well, and I would put to you, do it quickly. We should be grateful to your lawyer, and to this man.
He’s my lawyer. He was indemnified. His costs being paid so that we could work on things. And then he was de-indemnified. He sits here tonight pro bono because both of these men are believers. If you’ll vote to retain me as an elder and a board member tonight, I hope you will insist that my lawyer is paid by the church for the valuable work that he does in supporting me to fulfil my responsibility. A man is worth his wage and he should be paid for what he has done. So thank you for being here tonight.
The rules of incorporated entities.
[00:18:00] It’s a question for you as to whether or not it is moral and ethical. This meeting tonight is certainly legal, but is it moral? Is it ethical? As I look around the room, I don’t see people that have reached out and contacted me and asked me about what has happened.
You? Yes.
You? No.
It is a question for you as to whether or not it’s moral or ethical and in keeping with the character of an organization seeking to represent Christ. Tonight’s meeting is legal according to the Incorporations Act, but if that’s all we are, if the bar for our standards is set so low, just bare in mind that even in any worldly entity, any worldly corporation, this CEO [00:19:00] would be stood down pending the outcome of any investigations.
The corporation will cooperate with authorities fully. It would also report to authorities, which I have done. By the world’s standards, we not only fall short of God’s standards, we fail to reach the bar for the standards of the lost world. They’re better than us. On one occasion where I had to mandatory report, a young officer said to me something and I feel to share it with you:
“The statute of limitations may have expired on this, but that doesn’t mean that a church shouldn’t do something about it. Is it an immoral and ethical concern for you lot?”
And I answered him, yes, it is.
I’ll leave you with Ezekiel 34.
I want to say to you that those that have been driven away from this place are not lost in God’s sight.
“These shepherds did not feed them. They did not [00:20:00] strengthen them. They did not heal them. They did not bind their broken wounds. They did not bring back or go and seek those who were lost, but with force and cruelty, they have ruled them and scattered them.” Ezekiel 34 verse 10 says, “Thus sayeth the Lord, behold, I am against the shepherds and I will require my flock at their hands. I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep. And the shepherds shall feed themselves no more. I will deliver my flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”
As I leave here tonight, I leave with a clean conscience. If you vote to keep me, that’s your decision. I’ll finish my responsibilities. What do I think should happen? This is what I believe should happen. I believe your Senior Pastor and Co-Pastor should resign. If they won’t, you should vote them out. The church should be handed over to voluntary [00:21:00] administration.
Abused former staff should be reached out to and supported with full disclosure of the crimes that were committed against them. This church should then seek to make them right. You have an obligation to do this. There will be no closing of the door on all that has come out and moving on to some bright future where you make a pretense of getting it right.
There can be no moving on from here without making victims right. They have not done it. They cannot be trusted to do it. It falls to you whether it will ever be done, regardless of your vote. I will be going from this place to make them right as best I can.
That is the godly responsibility of an elder and a pastor. It will begin with full disclosure of what has been done to them in the [00:22:00] provision of any proof that supports it. I will do that with you or as an elder and a board member or without you. But I will do it as God is my witness. I will do it. So vote.
Thank you for listening.
“Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?” Galatians 4:16