[music] Well, here we are. This is leadership

and other stuff. I am, of course, Brian Houston, and this is part three of who’s

in charge. I’m speaking about church governance, church boards, and hopefully

it’s food for thought for you. So, my thoughts are based not on any one

experience, but on 54 years of experience. That’s right. I first was on

a church board um 21 years of age, I think, in a place

called Wua Mada in New Zealand. I’ve had some funny experiences over all the

years when it comes to boards. So when I was in my early 30s, I became the state

well in those days it was called superintendent of the Australian Assemblies of God. And

uh it was a baptism of fire because when I first became the state pre uh state

general superintendent, sorry. Later we changed it to superintendent, state superintendent. My first job was to go

up to a church out of Sydney um where I had to mediate or adjudicate

a situation where there was a pastor who not just the board turned against him, the whole church, it was a mutiny, the

whole church turned against him. And uh so I got thrown into this situation and

ultimately that pastor, he had no backing whatsoever. So uh my role was to

kindly let him know his time was over. And so yeah, I’ve had many experiences,

good experiences, bad experiences, but I think church governance, church boards is something every founding pastor,

every lead head pastor needs to consider. And I’m particularly

looking after you, the founding pastor, the um the the long-term senior pastor.

So, I’m not really talking about people who over a short period of time were

appointed by a board. I’m really talking about pastors who well I was in

Scandinavia not so long ago and I got

talking to a an old you I think he’s 89 like really old but very spritly guy

from Sweden who apparently years ago pastored the largest church in

Sweden in Malmo and well whether it was the largest or not it was a significant

church and it turns out that the board of that church dismissed him, got rid of

him and it seems the main reason was because uh well he was successful. The

church was being blessed. God was moving uh but the board couldn’t control him so they got rid of him. And so that was a

large church. But if I think in smaller churches, I was in Switzerland not so

long ago and we were being driven by a beautiful young couple and they had been asked to come and be the pastors in a

local church in Switzerland. And after just three months, the board changed the

locks on the doors, literally locked them out. And again, the reasons were

not because they had done anything wrong. Uh nothing like that. It was more

just a board deciding that

they didn’t want that couple. They were doing well. Church started to show life

and growth, but a board decided no.

So boards are important. You can’t underestimate the importance of working with a board. Um

I think in any board it’s important to realize the real decision makers are usually

a lot less people than the whole board. A whole board might vote on a pastor, a

senior pastor, a lead pastor, a head pastor. A whole board might vote.

But the question is who are the real decision makers? Who sets the agenda?

Who chairs the meeting? Who decides the narrative? Who is it that

is really putting their will onto the

board? Uh I think it’s a great question because

you know sometimes that’s just three or four people. In fact I would say mostly

that’s just three or four people that they are the real decision makers u and

the ones who make statements on behalf of the board even if the whole board’s not even aware those statements

statements were going out. So talking from my experience. So just recap couple

of things here. Number one, I think every board should have external

members. In fact, I would say a majority of external members. They are objective,

not subjective. Um they’re committed to see you flourish

unimpeded by them. That’s when a board is working well. They are committed to see you flourish.

So again, second, don’t let a management board determine your future. It knows

this place serving the vision of the lead pastor. And number three,

when it comes to accountability, the senior pastor’s accountability,

my recommendation always would be an external board. That’s right. Of

apostles and prophets. So you have a board of management. And that’s a very

good way of describing it. a management board that I think the people who

determine a pastor’s future should be external apostles, prophets,

evangelists, pastors, teachers. I think that’s biblical. I think that’s scriptural because the church is built

Ephesians 2 on apostles and prophets. Jesus built built is an important word

his church on apostles and prophets. Is it Ephesians 2:20? Uh Jesus Christ

himself being the chief cornerstone. So yes, he’s the foundation. He builds his

church. And without that foundation, those footings, that cornerstone, well,

the whole building crumbles. But how does Jesus build his church? He builds on apostles and prophets. It’s very

clear in the scripture. When people’s mindset is only corporate, when people’s

mindset is only well, if you like the way the world works,

that’s what you get. That’s what you get. And so

number four, a church is not just a charity. A church is is a not forprofit

but it’s not just a not forprofit and it’s not just a ministry. Church is

standalone. It’s the only one where the governance is clearly described in the

New Testament. That’s right. Clearly described in the

New Testament. It’s my belief that accountants,

lawyers, doctors, property developers, whoever, they have

an important part to play if they’re competent. A very important part they

can play. But it is not controlling churches. Churchgoverned,

sorry, boardgoverned or board controlled. They are very

different things. And often the only thing that changes that turns a boardgovern church into a board control

church is a change of chairman of the board. Yeah. So

I’m not s suggesting capable competent people can’t play an active role in a

board of management. I think they can. I think their expertise,

I think their skills can be very very important

uh in the governing of a church. So

the problem is when you get [snorts] small men who usurp usurp large

ministries, uh maybe their egos will be stroked.

Maybe their sense of self-importance will be titillated, but the damage will have eternal

consequences. They have a lot to answer for. They have a lot to answer for.

Most likely they rationalize and justify their actions and to be frank live in an

echo chamber. So in other words, they surround themselves with people who

agree with them, who if there were sides, take their sides.

Uh, so most likely they will never admit to themselves the damage they cause.

Um, and they’re sad. Not only will they not admit it, they

don’t even realize it. They think they’re saviors of the church, but they are the exact opposite to the saviors of

a church. Uh, so people ask, who keeps the pastor

accountable? And it’s a good question. But a question that’s not very often asked is who keeps the board accountable

in your church? Who keeps the board accountable?

Uh boards, a board of management is that’s

what it is. They’re managers. They’re managers over the governance of a

church. um they got a significant role to play.

I’ve said that. Uh

but control over you found him pastor,

a long-term lead pastor. uh

you should be answering to a group of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors or teachers.

Keep bringing it back to the New Testament. Keep bringing it back to what

first Jesus established and then what the apostles

not only said but taught us when it comes to the leadership of a board.

Managers versus leaders. uh

apostles and prophets they in a church operate at a different level than a

management board if you like apostles, prophets, etc. You you could call them

elders because they are true elders. They are apt to teach. Not only all of

the other things the Bible says about an elder, the qualifications of an elder,

but they are apt to teach and they are pastors and they are ministry gifted,

not just competent with money, finances, etc. So, I’ll say it one more time.

I think that secular people who love the Lord, who are genuinely spiritual and

who are committed to the vision of the senior or head pastor have a big role to

play. Do remember Exodus 18. It’s actually a fantastic piece of scripture.

I’ve talked about it many times. So that’s where Moses Moses was leading

God’s people and they were

uh well they had crossed the Red Sea and they were in the wilderness and Moses he

led a great massive crowd of people but he was trying to do everything himself

and his father-in-law his name was Jethro told him hey Moses the thing you’re doing is not good. Not only are

you going to wear yourself out, you’re going to wear these people out also. And

he gave him specific ways he could lead the church. And so I’m going to read the

verses. It starts by saying, this is Jethro’s encouragement to Moses.

Moreover, you se shall select from all the people able men. able. It literally

and other translations [clears throat] say it means either capable or confident or competent. Excuse me. Men such as

fear God. Um fear God. So we’re talking about

spiritual men, not just capable men. Spiritual men, they love the Lord. And

it goes on and says, uh, men of truth hating covetousness. So, they’re not

coveting anyone else’s job. They’re not coveting position. They’re not coveting

uh uh uh sorry, you know, they’re not coveting

uh acknowledgement, being seen. No, they there’s no

covetousness in them. They’re not looking for anything for themselves. Uh

they’re not coveting the senior pastor’s job. Not at all. And

so keeping on reading it says and place over

place such so these able men competent men place such over them to be rulers or

leaders of thousands hundreds 50s and tens. Keep in mind Moses was leading

millions these men thousands hundreds 50s tens. Just a side

note on that, sometimes leading 10 people is more challenging than leading

thousands. And so the president or prime minister of a country has a a a cabinet. The

cabinet might be 10 people. And you know, sometimes leading those 10 people

is more challenging than leading thousands. I’ve led an executive at a national level of the Assemblies of God

at denomination and I can tell you leading sometimes that executive is more

challenging than leading thousands of people. So these are good people and they do have a role to play. So it goes

on says and let them judge the people at all times

that it will be that every great matter. So leaders you decide the great matters.

Yeah. The management board what this scripture

describes as small matters. School um small doesn’t mean inconsequential.

It doesn’t mean that what you’re looking after is not incredibly important. If

you’re looking after the bottom line, if you’re looking after u

keeping things lined up with requirements and regulations. So when it

comes to the big picture of the church, these are small matters but not

inconsequential matters that propel the leadership to do what God’s called them

to do. uh they shall bring to you, Moses, every

small matter uh they shall bring to you, excuse me, the great matters they shall bring to

you, but every small matter they themselves shall judge. So it will be

easier for you. When a board understands their role, that’s the whole important

thing. It’s about making it easier for you. easier for you to do what God

called you to do. It will be easier for you. For they were the bear, they will

bear the burden with you. They are with you. They are for you. They realize that

their role in terms of the great big picture, their role is to enable you to be everything

God called you to be and lead in every way God called you to lead. And so,

uh, they will bear the burden with you. If you do this thing,

the council to Moses was, if you do [clears throat] this thing and God so

commands you, then you will be able to endure endure. It’s all about a leader

having a group of people who make their role easier and are committed to seeing

them there for the long term able to endure and all those people will also go

to their place in peace. You know, when a board’s working well, it doesn’t cause crisis, catastrophe,

uh, upset, disunityity. [clears throat] No, the opposite. So, the people can go

to their place in peace. So, Moses heeded the voice of his father-in-law and did all that he said. And Moses

chose able men out of all Israel. So, they weren’t all just from one place.

No, they were from all Israel

and made them heads over the people. Rulers of thousands, rulers of the hundreds, rulers of 50s, rulers of tens,

Moses millions. So they judge the people at all times

and the hard cases, things that have potentially

extremely important consequences.

uh hard case they brought to Moses, but they judge the small matters themselves.

[snorts] So that leads me to ask again five questions. Who’s in charge? Is it the

congregation? Is it the head pastor? Is it the board?

Is it a group of elders? Who is in charge?

It should be a pro, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers. That’s

who it should be in any church. So the question is, what does biblical

governance look like? Um,

have you thought about the answer to that question? It can seem like these are not important

matters. You just have a group of people. They help you to govern the church. Uh they help you to make the key

decisions. And when a board works well, man, it’s fantastic. But don’t ever ever uh presume

on the interests of a church board. Don’t ever assume that

their interests are you, the leader, the person God assigned, the person God

gifted with a ministry gift, ministry gifts, don’t ever assume that. If you

have that, thank God for it. But if self-interest instead of the interest of

the leader and the interest of the congregation is what is in their heart,

well that leads to all kinds of tragedies. I’ve seen it. I’ve watched it. I’ve

observed it. And you cannot overestimate the importance of getting the governance

of your church right. You cannot overestimate it.

If you just build it on people who are in your world right now, their friends,

uh you love them, they show you all the signs there for you. But life is long,

hearts change. Uh things can change. So you have to consider all those things.

Don’t make your decisions about the structure of a board according to

certain personalities who are with you right now. It’s a mistake. Don’t do that. Uh and

yet it’s a sad thing to me that when boards uh act I think out of self-interest

sometimes in fact I would say with all my experience many times

uh you can’t expect that people won’t just care for

themselves. Human nature cares for themselves. It’s a sad thing to say, but it’s true.

Human nature will firstly always care for themselves. Uh, and it’s tragic.

When people basically decide to see no evil, hear no

evil, speak no evil, they see an ongoing injustice happening, but they are

priests and Levites. What do I What do I mean by that? Well, they passed by on

the other side of the road just like the story Jesus told uh where the priest,

the Levite just passed by on the other side of the road. If your if people’s

job is at stake or the opportunity or it’s just uncomfortable and we don’t

want any trouble, I think it’s a sad thing. I think it’s an indictment on

human nature, but people don’t have the courage to stand up because maybe they

lose their job, maybe they’ll lose their opportunity, maybe it’ll cause

disruption [clears throat] that’s uncomfortable. So, people don’t want that. Uh, Proverbs chapter 20 verse 6,

listen to it. Proverbs 20 verse 6 it says the purposes of a person’s heart

are deep waters. The purposes of a person’s heart are

deep waters. But one who has insight draws them out.

Many claim to have unfailing love but a faithful person who can find. That’s

that’s sad reality. Many claim to have unfailing love, but when it comes to the

crunch, if a person’s job is on the line, if a person’s opportunity is on the line, if maybe it’s just too

uncomfortable, too difficult, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, uh a

faithful person who can find, let’s believe you can find faithful people who

will lead with you. people who just like Moses when he was in the battle.

The people were down there, they were fighting the battle. Moses held his hands in the air and he prayed and every

time his hands were in the air, the the people prevailed. They were winning the war. But his hands got tired, his arms

got tired. So Aaron and her, they held his hands up. And when they held his

hands up, the people prevailed and the war was won. I’m believing with you,

you’ll find those people who despite any circumstance will hold your hands in the

air so that whatever spiritual natural battle you’re facing, you can prevail.

People like that are rare and they’re gold. And it’s never tested

until it’s tested. It’s never tested until it’s tested.

So often for God’s perfect will to be done,

he would need to radically change the hearts of men or remove men.

And God can do that. He can change the hearts of men. He can remove men.

So his will be done on earth as it already is in heaven.

Uh there’s been multiple multiple times in

modern church history where God to have his way has literally removed men or has

literally completely changed the hearts of men. King Saul, Bobby and I watched a

series recently called House of David. It’s fantastic. It’s great. And two seasons have been released. And we

watched both seasons and we loved it. Much of what we watched covered Saul,

King Saul, the first king of Israel. And he got off to such a great start. Such a

great start. But he kept on disobeying the will of God. And ultimately, the

Bible says God regretted making him king. [clears throat] regretted making him king. And so Saul

ultimately what happened? God didn’t change his heart. He removed him. I

think if you really want to see God’s will done in a church and injustices are

happening and um people’s self-interests have got

involved that it’s not it’s not it’s not um

unimaginable that God may decide to remove men so

that his will will be done. The purposes of the heart are deep waters. You never

really know what’s in a person’s heart until it’s tested. But one who has

insight draws them out. So draws out what’s really going on in the hearts of

people. Um often for God’s perfect will to be done,

he needs to radically change the hearts of people. And God can remove people.

There’s many instances in the Bible. If you’ve been treated badly by a church

board if you have uh stay humble. It’s

not easy. Forgive. That’s even less easy. Uh keep living.

Plan for today. It all sounds easy, but it’s obviously

not. But there’s multiple instances of God turning things around. My great

friend Danny Guglamucci, he planted a church many, many years ago

uh in Adelaide. Great church, a great church. And things

happened and ultimately Danny found himself out of leadership. And he wasn’t

honored initially. He wasn’t honored at all. In fact, there was hostility toward

him. But over many years, over many years, it all turned around so that

Danny found himself back leading the church that he planted, that he started.

He found himself back leading that church and then made the decision in

terms of successes and the future of churches. So God can do that. And of

course there’s multiple secular examples of people who were pushed out, finding

their way back. One great example is Steve Jobs at Apple. Yeah. It all turned

around and he found himself back. uh Starbucks, the person who started Starbucks,

uh he was no longer on the scene and Starbucks started to tank. So what did

they do? They brought him back. Uh

Disney, Bob Eager was the head of Disney and he was gone

but Disney was doing badly and they brought him back. So it happens. It

happens. So when it comes to the church and spiritual matters, only God can do

that. He can remove men. He can change the hearts of men. And there’s many,

many occasions where that’s exactly what God has done. If you’ve been treated

badly by a church board, uh you can’t just stop there. You got to

keep living. You got to keep moving forwards forward focused. But again,

God has a capacity to correct wrongs and to bring things back to exactly where

they should be. So, your story is personal. I’m talking now again to

founding pastors or people who have been through heartbreak because of the actions of a board. Your story is

personal. Maybe God’s calling you to just move on. Leave it behind. It’s done. And and that’s fine. That’s fine.

And especially if God lifts the burden off you, that’s fine. Uh but

what I do know is this. Founding pastors,

people who paid the price, people who counted the cost, people who were there.

Remember what I said, Paul, he talks in Galatians here when he started uh he

there was no human authority or body of people that put him there. God put him

there. God put him there. But if people can’t honor the past, live for today,

and build for tomorrow, then they they can live in their zone, and they think

and think they’re saviors. But the reality is the damage that they’ve done

is catastrophic. They can’t see it. They won’t admit it, but believe me, it’s

true. So honoring the past is critical. Uh and you know honor is not just public

platitudes. I mean you can say things publicly.

So allude to honor publicly but if there’s dishonor going on privately

that’s all it is. Empty platitudes. Empty platitudes. Empty platitudes. So

you can’t live in the past. You can’t wallow over the past, but there should

always be honor for the past. So, yep,

I’m going to finish now. There’s many, many examples in many, many places I

could give. But one thing I do know, it’s God builds his church, not on

boards. Management boards manage. It’s a serving

role. You serve the vision of the pastor. It’s a serving role. Pastors

should be accountable to apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, a select group of people.

Doesn’t even have to be a lot of people, a few people. And they are for you and

they are for the congregation and for the future. and

they can see God’s will be done. You have a great day. Thank God for you. And

if you’re founding a church, pioneering, you’re planting, get it right. Get it

right. Don’t just look at the people you’ve got now. Don’t look at that. Look at the potential. Look, when God starts

to build and it becomes something significant on what can be used to

diminish you, dismiss you because God appointed you. And if God appointed you,

it’s your church. It’s your church. Not because you own it, but because God

called you, anointed you, and appointed you. You be blessed. Amen.