For decades we have watched Hillsong act underhanded to Christians who question their practices and towards media who do their best to accurately report on the Hillsong movement. We are very concerned seeing similar games played by Hillsong behind the scenes to respected ministers and leaders.
Dr. James White is a respected Christian man in the field of discernment and apologetics. He sometimes weighs in on important church issues and recently decided to tackle the controversy surrounding Hillsong’s vague stance on homosexuality.
We wish to highlight what James White recently said on his show titled ‘Seer Stones, Hillsong Church, and KJVOnly Deceitfulness’:
“So when someone says, “Jesus never addressed this issue,” they’re just ignorant. They just don’t know what they are talking about. And Carl says, “I know that. I agree. And it was a combination of my not speaking clearly enough and them not following up with what I said afterward where I said those things.”
So, you know. Okay I hear you. Got it. Alright.
I tried to be- if I’m going to criticise, I want to try to be fair, and I want to try to be accurate. And the fact is, there are sources amongst conservative Christians that are trusted that shouldn’t be. We re-post stuff that isn’t always overally accurate. And my concern was exactly that. My concern was exactly that. Because, these are important issues. And when we are not- when we don’t do our homework and we just go with the twelve-gate shotgun blast from the start, we may think we are doing the Elijah thing. But in reality we are only hurting ourselves. Because then people can just focus on that and not focus upon what the real issue is.”
Source: James White, Seer Stones, Hillsong Church, and KJVOnly Deceitfulness, Alpha & Omega Ministries, http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2015/08/05/seer-stones-hillsong-church-and-kjvonly-deceitfulness/, 26:17-27:50, Published 05/08/2015. (Accessed 10/08/2015.)
One has to wonder what Carl Lentz disclosed in that conversation with James White.
This is because we have the impression that Dr. James White had trouble finding the source of this quote from Carl Lentz and we find it odd that Carl Lentz didn’t give him the audio/source or apologise for his sloppy witness on the CNN program.
You can find this uploaded media presentation with the relevant quote (9:18-10:08) in the Poppy Harlow interview, on the ‘Pastor Carl Lentz’ YouTube channel.
Below the video, you can read:
Carl Lentz 2015 sermons | Carl Lentz sermons.
Directed by Carl Lentz
Be Blessed As You Grow In Grace And Knowledge and share the videos with your friends so that they maybe blessed too.
Source: Pastor Carl Lentz, Carl Lentz | Tattooed Megapastor Carl Lentz The Next Joel Osteen Mar 12,2015, YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPOKqMonUc8, Uploaded 10/03/2015. (Accessed 10/08/2015.)
So why didn’t Carl Lentz “bless” James White?
Just in case it may be pulled by Hillsong, here is another screen grab of this video from the ‘Pastor Carl Lentz’ channel (titled ‘Carl Lentz | Tattooed Megapastor Carl Lentz The Next Joel Osteen Mar 12,2015‘):
If Carl is protesting to James White “that it was a combination of [him] not speaking clearly enough and them not following up with what [he] said afterward where [he] said those things,” then why has he supposedly uploaded this video on his own YouTube channel?
[09:18-09:20] Announcer: “Are gay men and women welcome in the church?”
[09:21-09:24] Carl Lentz: “Absolutely. We have a lot of gay men and women in the church and I pray we always do.”
[09:25-09:30] Laura Lentz: “It’s not our place to tell anyone how they should live. That’s there journey.”
[09:31-9:37] Announcer: “Every article I’ve read about you guys says, “he declined to discuss gay marriage.’”
[9:37-10:08] Carl Lentz: “Yeah, it’s a misquote because I do discuss it just not the way people want me to. When it comes to homosexuality, I refuse to let another human being or a media moment dictate how we approach it. Jesus was in the thick of an area where homosexuality, just like it is today, was wildly prevalent. And I’m still waiting for someone to show me the quote where Jesus addressed it on the record in front of people. You won’t find it because he never did.”
Source: Pastor Carl Lentz, YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJZXVdwvO8, Uploaded 07/06/2/15. 09/08/2015. (Accessed 09/08/2015.)
In Australia, Hillsong has been saying for decades that the media are great (only when they look good). However, whenever the Australian media report Hillsong peddling Word of Faith or prosperity heresy; reported on scandals; report on leadership abusing or ripping off it’s members financially, etc, Hillsong are quick to demonise, distort, defame and damn the media organisation.
When you watch the CNN media report, it is not tearing into Hillsong. This would make sense as to why Carl Lentz would record this and upload it.
Now that he is being rightly condemned as being “ignorant” or “deceitful” by using that argument in the report, both Lentz and Houston are now defaulting to their typical defamation statements against the media, that being that they were taken out of context or misrepresented.
Thus Carl Lentz’ dialogue with White appears to be disingenuous in regards to the media misrepresenting him. [edit 11/08/2015] If he thought they misrepresented him to begin with, why did he [supposedly] upload that video to his YouTube account? [/edit]
Dr. James White, if you are reading our site, please understand that we respect your work and are perturbed that Carl Lentz was not upfront and honest with you about his views regarding homosexuality. We believe that if you are given well documented evidence against Carl Lentz, you will confront him for his rejection of God’s Word.
Reblogged this on Truth2Freedom's Blog.
Hi! I actually don’t have a YouTube channel, so that’s unfortunate here in regards to your attempt to discredit me. Hard for me to upload videos on a site I don’t actually have. Make sure you do just a little bit of homework before you build your attack, might make it a little more believable. James white is a respectable man, who actually called to check facts. What’s funny is he actually talks about people like you the podcast you posted! Hilarious. In your eagneress to tear down, don’t rush the fact checking part. God bless you!
Carl Lentz: guy who has no YouTube channel.
We look forward to providing the whole transcript very soon, Carl. Especially the part where Dr. White addresses Brian Houston’s response.
@ Carl Lentz – http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2015/08/postmodern-language-games.html
00:07:50 – Montage of Postmodern Language Games
00:46:48 – Carl Lentz’ Obfuscation
01:14:14 – Sermon Review: The Gospel by Brian Houston of Hillsong
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
OK Lentz, got a question for you: If in conversation with someone they told you “my husband was disabled at work and he has had to retire…”, giving you NO other information what conclusion would you reach? Perhaps that man is permanently disabled, he’s on a pension, he’s in dire straits financially and his family must have it hard? Would you feel compassion and have a desire to help if you could?
What would you think later if you found from another reliable resource that woman INTENTIONALLY left out a major detail in order to gain sympathy and attention for herself:
“… but that employer paid for his surgery, he’s had rehabilitation, he’s been reemployed in another role and he’s doing really well financially?” Surely you’d feel deceived, disgusted and very negatively towards her because she deceived you for personal gain?
What do you think God is thinking of your attempt to deceive the world into believing Jesus won’t judge homosexuals because the Gospels didn’t record Jesus condemning homosexual sin directly?
1. Would you give the same answer “Jesus didn’t say anything about it…” to internet p*rn addicts, pedophiliacs fetishists and lovers of bestiality? Why the double standards?
2. If you have basic theological knowledge why are you speaking as if Jesus is more loving than the God of the Old Testament? Thanks to people like yourself I have had to correct atheists who think that Jesus mustn’t be God “because he’s too nice and loving to be *that* God”.
3. The Bible clearly calls God Lord in both Old and New Testament. Jesus is called Lord. God doesn’t change. Why do you try to make it sound like Christianity should change to be more accepting of UNREPENTANT sinners?
4. The apostle Paul condemned homosexuality and he is contradicted by the apostles NOWHERE in the New Testament. Do you/Hillsong know better than the apostles (who walked with Jesus for 3 years in person) now?
Actions speak louder than words. Your refusal to preach what the bible clearly e.g. say to media what the bible says about unrepentant homosexuals says reveals you do not love the God of the BIBLE. You are a double agent. You speak out of both sides of your mouth. You and every other Hillsong preacher will be held responsible for all the false converts who believed “God loved them just as they are…” – loving their sins and/or sexual identity more than Him and remaining in their sins when the bible calls Christians to be holy as God is holy.
Mark 8:36 [Jesus said] For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me AND OF MY WORDS in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.