Tonight (the 21st of April, 2015), Australia’s ‘A Current Affair’ aired this report on Hillsong.
In spite of Hillsong’s continual lies, their facades of “relevancy” and their contemporary nonsensical gimmicks, the world still sees through it. The reality is this: the world is not being won over to Jesus Christ. In fact, Hillsong is giving the world an excuse to hate Christianity while Hillsong is militantly campaigning against biblical Christianity. Not only that, Hillsong is stealing Christians from other churches and taking over churches by force under the guise of “blessing” churches. It is time the media, the Australian Government and more importantly church leaders, stop calling Hillsong a church. Cults have always declared war on Christianity. Hillsong for decades have proven again and again to be a word of faith and prosperity cult. When will Christianity finally say enough is enough?Categories: Hillsong
If they brought in all that money and could show how they are using that money to do ministry (not music) in the communities around the world and even take an okay salary, then I’d have no issue. Why the secrecy?
http://hillsong.com/policies/2013-annual-report-australia Does this answer your question Crayzeejoe??
Reblogged this on The X Mass H8rs Blog and commented:
Sad. I love many of their songs…the words are biblical (I have to have the lyrics to understand what is sung) Their worldly presentation leaves alot to be desired and I wouldn’t recommend their style as part of a formal worship service.
I’m not a Hillsong supporter, but here are a few things to consider:
1) We don’t know the operating costs of a Hillsong service. They look high. We shouldn’t judge yet. The reporter who asked Houston’s wife where the money went was out of line–he was asked “have you been to a service”–to which he replied “no.” He hadn’t done ANY research on the accusation he was making. This is horrendous, biased journalism.
2) This Current Affair piece is biased and unfair. They don’t approach the subject with fairness and integrity, as right from the git-go they are undermining church tax-exemption. (Tax exemption is a fundamental right for religious institutions–it provides a protective buffer between the govt. and the church by not allowing either side to have leverage agains the other. And churches do an awful lot of good in this world with that money)
3) Hillsong doesn’t want the tithing portion taped because giving is a private issue. They don’t want people to be seen giving, or to fell pressured to give because of cameras. Churches know that giving MUST be between man and God only.
It was not Bobbie Hosuton that was being asked the question about where the money went. The rest of your response is just as factual as that first point.
“They don’t want people […] to feel pressured to give because of cameras.”
Of course they don’t; it’s Brian’s job to pressure people to give.
“We don’t know the operating costs of a Hillsong service. They look high.”
Yeah, I hear the sermon on the mount cost an absolute bomb, too. No wonder the Disciples had to work the crowd so hard to get them to part with their hard-earned reddies, eh?
“We don’t know the operating costs of a Hillsong service. They look high.”
No, its the Hillsong ceilings your thinking of. The ceilings must be high in case Brian invites Phil Pringle over to speak, and Phil brings his personal Trapeze Angel assistants with him.
Perhaps they should have asked Hillsong for a reply. I have read their statement. Current Affair should also. Tithing has been a part of the Christian Church for centuries. The growth of a Christian or any church is a direct result of the spiritual benefits gained by its followers. I have never been to one of their services, but their music is very attractive to my soul. If I had the opportunity I would go. I have never tithed as I don’t feel the inclination to do so.
Good works are good works. It’s great that humanity helps humanity. But it is not by good works that you will go to heaven. The Bible teaches us that by accepting that Jesus died for us, we will be redeemed. He did the good work.
As a former newspaper editor, I am concerned when I see such a vitriolic one sided attack by a programme promoting itself as a news programme. Even basic journalistic skills have not been used.
“Tithing has been a part of the Christian Church for centuries. The growth of a Christian or any church is a direct result of the spiritual benefits gained by its followers.”
The tithing doctrine is a false doctrine peddled by con artists for centuries. To preach the tithe is to preach against Christ and the gospel – thus disqualifying oneself as a legitimate minister.
If any Christian sees a church pastor preaching such a dangerous doctrine – run. That minister should know better. They are provoking the curse of damnation in Galatians 1 upon themselves and their congregation.
To insist that it’s true because it’s been taught for centuries is a fallacious argument. It was never taught in the New Testament church.
People give because they want to churchwatcher. No one is forced. What makes this different to a surfclub? or the catholic church collecting or charities? A lot of the money goes to paying for food for the homeless, providing community support etc. If some one donates on the basis of them being compelled by the pastors then more fool them. Cant you trust people to make their own decisions? The pastors never ask for coin its an option. Do your research and maybe go along some time. You might be surprised.
And if your giving was continually being reinforced from Malachi?
A response from a former member “I attended Hillsong for many years too, and looking back I cannot think of a time when Hillsong did not pressure me to give. Not only in sermons, but also at youth groups and in cell groups; those collection plates were always circulating. At the time I didn’t realise I was being pressured, I thought that Hillsong was just kindly providing me with an opportunity to give, if I felt the need. But being better versed in management now I understand the subtle ways that pressure is applied.
Also, I’d never heard Malachi spoken on at any church before Hillsong, and now I fear I may never forget it. I wish they’d talked about the book of Proverbs even a quarter as much as I heard them preach on Malachi and tithing.”
As we have said before, there are many former members who have expressed deep concerns about Hillsong since leaving. But sadly, they’re just “dissenters & haters” now.
tithing is very Biblical: check out http://www.openbible.info/topics/tithes_and_offering which lists bible verses all pertaining to tithing. to preach against is ungodly.
“Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the Law in which the Israelites were to give 10 percent of the crops they grew and the livestock they raised to the tabernacle/temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). In fact, the Old Testament Law required multiple tithes—one for the Levites, one for the use of the temple and the feasts, and one for the poor of the land—which would have pushed the total to around 23.3 percent. Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites in the sacrificial system.
The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. The New Testament nowhere designates a percentage of income a person should set aside, but only says gifts should be “in keeping with income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving.
The New Testament talks about the importance and benefits of giving. We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give (James 1:5). Above all, all tithes and offerings should be given with pure motives and an attitude of worship to God and service to the body of Christ. “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).” (Giving and Tithing by Larry Burkett)
Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
The Tithing Hoax
A. Tithing applied only to the Jews in the Old Testament. Jesus and Paul taught “Cheerful Giving.” There was no assigned percentages.
B. Tithing in the Old Testament applied only to crops and livestock, not wages or business income.
C. There were two tithes for two years in a row and three tithes every third year.
Here is more information for your research. http://thetwoedgesword.com/the-tithing-hoax/
“tithing is very Biblical […]”
Gouging out your eye if it causes you to sin is also “very Biblical”.
“tithing is very Biblical”
And if frauds like Brian Houston can convince you that tithing is biblical they can convince you that unicorns are “very biblical”. If Christians believe in tithe mythology, what’s stopping them from believing in unicorns?
“God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.” Numbers 23:22, 24:8
“His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.” Deuteronomy 33:17
“Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?” Job 39:9-10
“Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.” Psalms 22:21
“He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.” Psalms 29:6,
“But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.” Psalms 92:10
“And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.” Is 34:7
“Tithing has been a part of the Christian Church for centuries.”
However it has never been a part of the Gospel, and it never will be.
Your point is in any case moot, since hillsong is neither Christian nor a church.
“As a former newspaper editor, I am concerned when I see such a vitriolic one sided attack by a programme promoting itself as a news programme.”
As someone who has successfully negotiated third-grade at primary school, I am concerned to see that those responsible for producing newspapers present as borderline functional illiterates who know very little about the English language and even less about anything else. You shouldn’t think that mentioning your past as an editor confers any credibility; quite the contrary, in fact.
“The growth of a Christian or any church is a direct result of the spiritual benefits gained by its followers.”
Which is, of course, something that every former “newspaper editor” knows, is that right?
Statement by Hillsong Church on A Current Affair story April 21, 2015
There was no factual basis whatsoever to the story on A Current Affair about Hillsong Church, and the program made no attempt to contact us to get the facts – or even hear our perspective – before airing this piece of fiction. The movie “Let Hope Rise” is being produced by an outside production company who approached us, and Hillsong Church has not invested one cent into this movie. Furthermore, we operate like any other church financially and support people pastorally across the world. This story was yet again, nothing more than tabloid trash and we believe the vast majority of Australians view it as such. It is disappointing that Senator Nick Xenophon, (who presents himself as a champion of the people) has cooperated with such stories for at least the third time. It is poor behaviour and worth noting by church-going voters and people at large in South Australia, who rightly expect their elected representatives to make comments based on factual information rather than conjecture.
Sad that Christians call one another cults,saranic etc etc,At the end of the day the bible spoke clearly about false prophets coming in the last days.Ones that don’t promote or teach Jesus.Isnt there a scripture that the disciples went running to Jesus to whinge and complain about another group of people preaching him.And didn’t Jesus rebuke them saying that wether they basically preach Jesus then let it be.I really think the problem is it people don’t get a personal revelation about something then they believe it’s not of God because they don’t get it personally.Time to get over it saints and to get on with working for the cause.
“Isnt there a scripture that the disciples went running to Jesus to whinge and complain about another group of people preaching him.”
Yes. It was John the Baptists ministry. And do you know what John the Baptist did? He pointed people to follow the Jesus in the flesh. This is why he said, “He must increase while I must decrease”. John the Baptists followers did become Jesus’ followers.
But this is not the case with Hillsong. Hillsong points people to Hillsong and to their Pope Brian Houston. Just like Mormonism – Hillsong is the true church. And just like Islam (only with a smile) – you either change/convert or die. Hillsong’s jihad is against Christianity. They hate Christians with a passion who believe in the bible. In fact, we just received a testimony when a Christian attended a Hillsong church and talked to their friend afterward how Hillsong wasn’t biblical and didn’t pray, worship or preach about Jesus and attempted to walk them through what done throughout the service. Without even thinking the friend demonised and accused this person of being unloving, religious and dead.
Thankfully that friend was horrified by their reaction and apologised for their behaviour. But notice their reaction? When a Christian appealed to scripture and Christ Himself – the inbuilt reaction to the Hillsonger was to attack the Christian (the critic, the hater, the blogger, the Pharisee, the demon-possessed, the Judas, the Lot, the doubter, the backslider, the stoner, the judger, the finger pointer, the accuser).
Why? It is simply because Hillsongers are taught to put their trust and authority in Hillsong Church and it’s fuhrer (visionary leader), Brian Houston. And what’s worse they are brainwashed to do this blindly, whether that pastor is right or wrong. They demand loyalty and unity at all cost. Not integrity, truth and love.
This is a far cry from John the Baptist who’s authority who did come from God but who’s ministry clearly pointed people to Jesus and not Himself.
The true church should be like John the Baptist preaching and pointing people to Jesus.
Hillsong use the name of Jesus to bolster their own name and infallibilty. And when you take time to analyse their Jesus through their sermons. Truly, truly, it is not the God of the bible.
“They hate Christians with a passion who believe in the bible. In fact, we just received a testimony when a Christian attended a Hillsong church and talked to their friend afterward how Hillsong wasn’t biblical and didn’t pray, worship or preach about Jesus and attempted to walk them through what done throughout the service.”
All I hear from you is, “I heard this person say that,” and “That person told another person this,” have you, yourself, and not a ‘friend’ or similarly anonymous member, actually been to a Hillsong service? “They hate Christians with a passion who believe in the Bible.” That’s not even a little bit accurate. I have attended Hillsong before and there is a significant amount of value placed on those who can interpret and make relevant God’s biblical word at Hillsong, and most pastors will use multiple translations and original Hebrew/Greek to allow the congregation to ascertain the meaning of the words themselves. They also go to effort to let the congregation understand the context with which many of the books were written, by who, where and why.
“…Hillsong wasn’t biblical and didn’t pray, worship or preach about Jesus and attempted to walk them through what was done throughout the service.” Again, the anti-biblical claim is simply just untrue and paranoid. ‘Didn’t pray, worship or preach”?? Aren’t all of the songs they write, for worship? That part of the statement is immediately a silly claim. Prayer and preaching are also kind of pivotal to call a church service, a church service. They do prayer, a lot of it, and advocate being in prayer completely. And how could they possibly advocate prayer? By preaching it. “Attempted to walk them through what was done throughout the service.” Doesn’t sound like this person went to a service at all. I’m pretty sure this person went to one of the team nights where they teach volunteers/staff how the service needs to flow. And no, there wouldn’t be prayer, worship or preaching on these nights because team nights are not church services. A big church would also need staff and volunteers to help make things easier during, between and after services, that’s just common sense.
I also read your anti-tithing statement. And I’ve got to say, I disagree. Whilst I agree that tithing is indeed an Old Testament principle, it’s pretty obvious that because it’s from the Old Testament it is not a requirement for salvation. And I’m sure most of the Hillsong congregation understands this. Tithing is also not a bad thing. Firstly, it supports the church. If you are so concerned about Hillsong ‘stealing other church’s congregations’, then have you considered that there’s a reason for smaller churches going under? If the house of God can not be maintained by it’s residents, then it will fall apart. Again, common sense. Secondly, tithing is a principle that checks the heart of your faith. It doesn’t work for everybody and again it is not required for salvation by any means. But the act of tithing, a physical act of trusting God with your material possessions is quite powerful. It checks your heart. You can ask yourself if you do trust God even with your material belongings/needs, and then back up your words with actions. There is nothing worse than someone who openly claims they have great faith but cannot provide any examples of faith in action. But again, tithing is not the only way to test that, but it is a way, and it is biblical. To claim it isn’t biblical is again a silly statement. It is in the bible and therefore biblical, there are no two ways around it. But biblical doesn’t always mean that it is imperative or completely necessary, especially when it comes from the Old Testament.
If you are going to disprove anything I said, please use evidence that does not come from your own site. Please use either your own personal experience being inside a Hillsong service and not observing via computer livestream or word-of-mouth. Otherwise use straight Scripture.
The gospel can be summarized in John 3:16 (A scripture that is actually from one of the four Gospel books) and his second law is to love others as you love yourself. That includes loving the unloved and even the belligerent. We as humans and especially as God’s children have absolutely no right to judge others. Scripture should never be used to condemn another because no human has the right to proclaim judgement in God’s name. That right is reserved for God and God alone – and by extension of course, Jesus. Jesus himself went to the worst of his society, the outcasts and the ‘haters’, and loved them. He scolded them when they were wrong yes, but He never once stopped loving them. If you believe you have the right to pass judgement and harsh words on people using the name of Jesus Christ, even ‘cultists’, then you have greatly overstepped your authority. It is God’s world. He passes judgement, not you nor I nor anyone else who walks this earth.
To Mary J – let us cut through all the fluff and ask you a simple question. Would you endorse, support and defend a criminal and his criminal organisation?
“Sad that Christians call one another cults […]”
No, it’s sad that Brian Houston calls the hillsong cult a church.
I think it’s sad that you would publish this. There’s never been any evidence to this malice. Maybe you don’t like the way Hillsong has evolved and stayed relevant but Jesus is alive today so why should we live, worship and fellowship like we’re in the Old Testament? There is nothing wrong with being relevant. God’s church is attractive. He said to be in the world but not of it. Why are we attacking a church purely because it’s flourishing and proclaiming the name of Jesus at levels we never thought reachable? Why as Christians ourselves are we attacking other Christians? Isn’t it in the bible that we aren’t to do that? Leave the judging to God.
“There’s never been any evidence to this malice.”
Then you haven’t been talking to Christians who were destroyed by Hillsong. Hillsong and their false teachers have only progressed from bad to worse, not from glory to glory.
“There is nothing wrong with being relevant.”
It is when it the governing authority in the church. Morailty and God no longer govern. Just look at City Harvest Church and the men that endorse the “relevant” Pastor Sun Ho’s outreach ministry.
http://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/03/24/censorship-chc-leadership-play-dirty-to-hide-their-dirty-deeds/
“God’s church is attractive.”
And this is the best argument we’ve seen to your response: http://c3churchwatch.com/2012/05/13/enough-said-pringle-reveals-all/
“He said to be in the world but not of it.”
Which is why Hillsong why continually lies to Christians and the general public on a continual and why Hillsong is gay affirming, Allah affirming, Roman Catholic Affirming, New Age affirming and promoting occultic doctrines in the name of Jesus. Do you mean that kind of “Being in the world but not of it”? And do you know the only excuse that they keep using to justify this paganism is “relevancy”? This is how cowards try to win people to Jesus without relying on the authority of the gospel and God’s Word.
“Why are we attacking a church purely because it’s flourishing and proclaiming the name of Jesus at levels we never thought reachable?”
In case you are ignorant of the facts – Hillsong fails to be a church according to the standards of God’s Word. To keep insisting likewise is to promote ignorance or lies. We suggest you research this issue further.
“Why as Christians ourselves are we attacking other Christians?”
False teachers who preach false Jesus’ and false gospels promote heresies/factions. This issue would not exist if Hillsong did not exist. Sadly, there are many false converts in Hillsong that claim to be Christian but aren’t because they have taught to believe something contrary to Christianity.
“Leave the judging to God.”
And that is an example of promoting anti-Christian doctrine. We’ll ask you this question – what is the gospel?
“Maybe you don’t like the way Hillsong has […] stayed relevant […]”.
hillsong have not “stayed relevant” at all. They remain now as they always have been from the beginning – an incurable festering sore.
The fact that Hillsong is relevant at all means they have no clue what Christianity is. No Law, no command and no protocol in the bible even comes close to teaching that the church needs to be relevant.
But businesses books do.
So why does Hillsong insist that Christianity walk down the with path of relevance and not down the narrow road of living in God’s Word.
“[…] Jesus is alive today so why should we live, worship and fellowship like we’re in the Old Testament?”
How ironic it is that you should ask, given that Brian et al. are so insistent that tithing is mandatory. Maybe you should direct your question to him and see just how you get on – after all, hillsong attendees are not compelled to give or to strictly conform with Brian’s “beliefs”, are they?
Just a heads up. You can walk into Hillsong church and get a thorough look into their financials, which tracks where every single cent of their money goes. It is required by law and they abide by it to the fullest.
I would like you to explain your statement: “Hillsong is militantly campaigning against biblical Christianity?”
And finally Jesus in my Bible teaches us not to judge for with the same measure we judge another, we will be judged ourselves. Let’s not forget what our roles as disciples of Christ are not to condemn others but to point people to Jesus. From what I have seen Hillsong does that time and time again: glorifying God and pointing people to Jesus.
Just because their method may differ to how you would do it, doesn’t make it heretical.
Be blessed.
“And finally Jesus in my Bible teaches us not to judge for with the same measure we judge another, we will be judged ourselves.”
Which you have taken out of context and do not even apply to your own life or pastor. Another neuron-free zone response. Keep up the brainless work M. Your defense of Hillsong proves that biblically illiterate Christians are the only ones that can defend Hillsong. Now. What is the gospel?
Heres just one of the ways Hillsong use their money wisely http://hillsong.com/bwc/a21 How about you quit listening to bad reporting, and search the facts yourself. God has blessed them, its biblical to give Jesus often spoke about the person giving and the one that gave despite having nothing been rich in spirit. At the end of the day its God’s money and we are to be good stewards of that, so the people tithing within Hillsong are doing so because they are richly filled by the community they are apart of and the good it is doing throughout the world. Why not focus on the good things its doing, yes it has celebs attending, why not interview them and see how they have been changed by finding Christ, rather than seeing it as some sort of marketing ploy. For the Uniting church guy, maybe he could stop feeling like the victim and actually stand united with his brothers and sisters. What he is doing is great, what Hillsong is doing is great, we are all members of the one body, we all have different parts to play in that. He is doing his part, Hillsong are doing theirs.
“Hillsong is doing is great, we are all members of the one body […]”
Hillsong is not part of the body; it is a putrid corpse.
this is rubbish!!! At the end of the day, “fruits speak for themselves” well done Hillsong for championing churches across the globe!!!
I have only ever heard Brian Houston preach about Jesus and his sermons are very relative to everyday living, based on the Bible. I would have thought ACA would have sought to hear from the lives of people that have been changed through the ministry of Hillsong and included that in their program. Maybe ACA can do a full program on the positive. I’m sure much money from Hillsong is given to help the needy around the world. Keep on going for Jesus, Brian.
“I have only ever heard Brian Houston preach about Jesus […]”
Obviously you haven’t been listening.
“Maybe ACA can do a full program on the positive.”
Thats part of the problem. Most of you people are willing to shove the entire negative under the carpet and hide it and not discuss it and completely overlook it, based on some positive you think you might have seen.
Once there has been any scandal, victims, activities in the appearance of evil…. it has gone well beyond simply overlooking all the negative within Hillsong. Time to pull up the activity list and do a little reality checking in this ‘church.’
Can you please inform me where Hillsong has failed to be a church according to God’s word???
Why does “Leave the judging to God” promote anti-Christian doctrine? Does this mean that it is my christian right to judge others??
In answer to you What is the Gospel?
Loving God, Loving People! This is what the gospel is all about! Matthew 22:36-40
David – actually the Bible tells us what the gospel is and it’s not “loving God, loving people”…
1 Cor. 15:1-11 “Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.”
Loving God, and loving people is the greatest commandment, which is a massive part of the gospel. There can be no grace without love of Jesus christ. Commiting so much time condeming churches instead of building them up is sad. How can we hope to see a world won for christ when there are christians tearing christs body down?
“Loving God, and loving people is the greatest commandment, which is a massive part of the gospel.”
And that my friend is a false gospel. Believing that (which also comes from the teaching of Hillsong) will not get you to heaven but send you to hell.
We could tell you what the gospel is- but you might judge us unfit to share it with you. So can you please research what the gospel is?
This is why Hillsong is so dangerous. They have been preaching legalism like this for decades.
Mark 12:30-31New International Version (NIV)
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”
Seems pretty legit to me. Even though it isn’t explicitly stated throughout the epistles, you can’t say Jesus didn’t live these commandements out in his own life.
I’ll hear you though. What is the gospel?
NB: Can’t figure out how to reply directly to your last comment lol…
Jess T – That’s the summation of the Law not the Gospel.
“At the heart of the reformation’s hermeneutics was the distinction between “Law” and “Gospel.” For the Reformers, this was not equivalent to “Old Testament” and “New Testament;” rather, it meant, in the words of Theodore Beza, “We divide this Word into two principal parts or kinds: the one is called the ‘Law,’ the other the ‘Gospel.’ For all the rest can be gathered under the one or other of these two headings.” The Law “is written by nature in our hearts,” while “What we call the Gospel (Good News) is a doctrine which is not at all in us by nature, but which is revealed from Heaven (Mt. 16:17; John 1:13).” The Law leads us to Christ in the Gospel by condemning us and causing us to despair of our own “righteousness.” “Ignorance of this distinction between Law and Gospel,” Beza wrote, “is one of the principal sources of the abuses which corrupted and still corrupt Christianity.”1”
http://www.whitehorseinn.org/resources/free-articles/180-horton-law-gospel
Oh Churchwatcher – your “convenient” interpretation of the bible is laughable, maybe you should read John 15:12.
I am not a Hillsong member but their success is well known and good on them for getting out into the community and bringing the gospel to the people.
I think that you might do well learning and living Matthew 7:1-3.
Nacelle – Laughable? Ok.
I’m sure ex-Hillsonger Geoff Bullock would appreciate and understand this….
“The law supposing I have all,
Does ever for perfection call;
The gospel suits my total want,
And all the law can seek does grant.
The law could promise life to me,
If my obedience perfect be;
But grace does promise life upon
My Lord’s obedience alone.
The law says, Do, and life you’ll win;
But grace says, Live, for all is done;
The former cannot ease my grief,
The latter yields me full relief.
The law will not abate a mite,
The gospel all the sum will quit;
There God in thret’nings is array’d
But here in promises display’d.
The law excludes not boasting vain,
But rather feeds it to my bane;
But gospel grace allows no boasts,
Save in the King, the Lord of Hosts.
Lo! in the law Jehovah dwells,
But Jesus is conceal’d;
Whereas the gospel’s nothing else
But Jesus Christ reveal’d.”
– Ralph Erskine
And Narelle – it’s worth your life to grab hold of this amazing grace (apart from Hillsong), as Geoff would heartily affirm.
@Narelle,
‘Oh Churchwatcher – your “convenient” interpretation of the bible is laughable’
But when Brian Houston stated that Christians should take the “broad road”, that wasn’t laughable? When he wrote a book titled “You Need More Money”, that wasn’t laughable? And when Bobbie wrote a book “Kingdom Women Love Sex”, that wasn’t absolutely cringe-worthy?
It seems like you have the boot well and truly on the wrong foot, doesn’t it?
“Oh Churchwatcher – your “convenient” interpretation of the bible is laughable, maybe you should read John 15:12 ‘This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.'”
Narelle, YOUR “convenient” interpretation of John 15:12 is laughable. Brian Houston PARADING all his false teachers in front of the Body of Christ, snaring many in their net just to keep his mammon pouring in, is not ‘loving one another.’
The verse Matthew 7:6 comes to mind here. It is sad that you clearly have a vendetta against Hillsong. I am not sure what happened, but you clearly want to bring Hillsong down. Using a pseudonym does not give you credibility, neither does quoting Geoff Bullock – so I will leave you here Churchwatcher, be careful your bitterness does not bring you unstuck.
Narelle – Geoff understands the doctrines of grace. So do I. I’m not bitter, how could I be knowing I was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world?
“Using a pseudonym does not give you credibility”
Narelle, Who says you have any credibility?
“I am not a Hillsong member but their success is well known and good on them for getting out into the community and bringing the gospel to the people.”
Narelle, What about the abuse scandal, can you say “good on them” for that too?
Mark 9:42 — “If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.”
” so I will leave you here Churchwatcher”
Please leave before you reveal more ignorance, and indifference towards justice for the defenseless.
For your information, tithing is not directly mentioned by Jesus But He does say to render unto Caesar’s that which is Caesar’s and unto God that which is God’s. Jesus never came to abolish the law but to fulfill it and whilst under Grace we do not have to tithe 10 %we are told to give out from our and generally 10% is a guideline!!
Regarding the other accusations against Hillsong, they should have given them the right to respond to all the allegations first before broadcasting everything.
ACA did say they contacted Hillsong and Hillsong was unavailable for comment. Now Hillsong says otherwise. Considering the way Brian Houston eisegetes his sermons (and the scriptures being far more important than Hillsong’s “reputation”), we’re disinclined to give Hillsong the benefit of the doubt.
“[…] generally 10% is a guideline!!”
And what happens if you fall short of the “guideline”, Anthony?
Statement by Hillsong Church on A Current Affair story April 21, 2015
There was no factual basis whatsoever to the story on A Current Affair about Hillsong Church, and the program made no attempt to contact us to get the facts – or even hear our perspective – before airing this piece of fiction. The movie “Let Hope Rise” is being produced by an outside production company who approached us, and Hillsong Church has not invested one cent into this movie. Furthermore, we operate like any other church financially and support people pastorally across the world. This story was yet again, nothing more than tabloid trash and we believe the vast majority of Australians view it as such. It is disappointing that Senator Nick Xenophon, (who presents himself as a champion of the people) has cooperated with such stories for at least the third time. It is poor behaviour and worth noting by church-going voters and people at large in South Australia, who rightly expect their elected representatives to make comments based on factual information rather than conjecture.
http://hillsong.com/media/statement-by-hillsong-church-on-a-current-affair-story-april-21-2015
Interesting they made no mention of Bill Crews and his observations about Hillsong in the ACA segment. I wonder why?
Interesting word, “conjecture”. Hillsong continue to disregard the publically expressed concerns of former members – you know, those members who saw it all first-hand, some even in leadership, for many years.
Annointed Christian Leaders/People appreciate Hillsong’s heart,
Clue-less pelople about the word of God for sure will not!
Satan hates the work of God!But the light will always overcome darkness!
Shine people of God,conquer the world through your annointed worship Hillsong…that’s how to turture the enemy!Let’s all be one in prayer for the Glory of God!
Where’s that grammar Nazi gone, he needs to get on with the job.
Now everyone, let’s spell it one more time….
A N O I N T E D
T O R T U R E
C L U E L E S S
What about using those words in a sentence?
How about this? Brian Houston is supposed to be *anointed*, but the sad truth is that he is *clueless*, and listening to his drivel is nothing less than the most exquisite *torture*
(“exquisite” thrown in as a bonus word, even though it is doubtlessly unfamiliar to the hordes of hapless hillsong hacks commenting here).
“Satan hates the work of God!”
That’s why Brian manifests when he is confronted with his multitudinous misrepresentations and errors – his demons get really angry.
And so this just highlights the reason why A Current Affair is not worth watching. Do the research, what pathetic journalism ! Well a real journalist wouldn’t work for ACA anyway.
Oh please!! It’s that time of year again!! Slow news cycle, so they trot this old chestnut out again!! Don’t believe anything you see on this trashy show #acurrentaffair !!!!!!
You know nothing and you are doing the exact same thing that a cult would do (saying that they are right and the others are wrong). Stop creating a stir and get a life.
@churchwatchcentral you OBVIOUSLY haven’t had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ. Because if you had you would not be church slamming and comparing your brothers and sisters to the likes of Islam and jihadists. Also you can not call hillsong church a cult. Because a cult is a ‘relatively small’ group or gathering around religious beliefs. Now I don’t know about you but 50million + people does not seem like a ‘small gathering to me’
Courtney – Remember the Apostle Paul’s warning to the church in 2 Timothy 4:3?
“The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear”.
Hillsong’s ongoing mission to manage YOUR comfort level appears to have taken priority over preaching the Word.
Sorry – you lost me Courtey. Regardless of the debate ensuing, I am interested as to your source regarding the statement that a cult is a “relatively small” group? Please define “small”.
“you can not call hillsong church a cult. Because a cult is a ‘relatively small’ group or gathering around religious beliefs.”
Courtney, What you are saying makes no sense. Look at the numbers:
mormons worldwide — 15,000,000
jw’s worldwide — 10,000,000 – 20,000,000
you people need to get a life, Hillsong has done nothing but proclaim the name of Jesus.
“you people need to get a life, Hillsong has done nothing but proclaim the name of Jesus.”
The question is – which Jesus? You do realise their Jesus will send you to hell.
They also like to “proclaim the name” of T.D.Jakes (modalist – yes Brian it’s in the dictionary), Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer (both extreme WOF false teachers) just to name a few.
You see, that’s how a false teacher operates, they like to keep company with the “wolf pack”. There’s safety in numbers, just not sure who is the alpha male (or female).
I’d say “Hillsong has done nothing but soil the name of Jesus.” would be a tad more honest.
Do you know what I find hilarious? The fact that someone, such as yourself, has the nerve to belittle and harass those who defend Hillsong’s name and what they stand for. Calling someone “Clueless”, or “Biblically Illiterate” is certainly not something that Jesus would’ve appreciated, making you a complete hypocrite. Next time, before you even think of calling another follower of Christ something like that. Your claim to understanding what Christianity is about is obviously not as extensive as you think, if you can justify speaking down on groups of people in the way you do so often.
Hillsong church has released their own article upon this matter, so I suggest you read up and decide not to believe everything you hear from your alleged “sources”. Do the research, ask Hillsong yourself, rather than looking specifically to people who haven’t had the best experience with Hillsong.
http://hillsong.com/media/statement-by-hillsong-church-on-a-current-affair-story-april-21-2015
For me personally, I’ve learned a lot about Jesus through my experiences in Hillsong church, so much that in Religion class at my old Catholic school I knew more about Jesus’ legacy, the Gospel, and scriptures than most of the Catholic/Anglican/etc. born do. This act of hatred towards Hillsong and it’s members/supporters is entirely unjust, and to be frank, it’s not what God wants us to do. The varied denominations must be at peace with each other, and not discriminate against the ways each other operate. My church is a very worship-based, personal-experience-and-revelation-of-God kind of church, focused on the theme of “Come As You Are”.
I personally encourage you to keep an open mind, and come and check out a service, rather than relying on your anonymous sources, reports, and testimonials as “evidence” of Hillsong being a supposed “cult” rather than a church. WE ARE A PENTECOSTAL CHURCH, NOT “HILLSONGERS”.
Thank you, God Bless you.
Chloe/I love Jesus and I go to Hillsong: it was a Hillsong supporter who was calling concerned and discerning Christians “clueless”.
“Personal experience and revelation of God”? Is God giving new revelation, do we need to add it to the back of our well read bibles?
“There is no fresher or more intimate revelation than Scripture. God doesn’t need to give us private revelation to help us in our walk with Him. “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16 – 17; emphasis added). Scripture is sufficient. It offers all we need for every good work.
Christians on both sides of the charismatic fence must realize a vital truth: God’s revelation is complete for now. The canon of Scripture is closed. As the apostle John penned the final words of the last book of the New Testament, he recorded this warning: “I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and from the holy city, which are written in this book” (Rev. 22:18-19). Then, the Holy Spirit added a doxology and closed the canon.
When the canon closed on the Old Testament after the time of Ezra and Nehemiah, there followed four hundred “silent years” when no prophet spoke God’s revelation in any form.
That silence was broken by John the Baptist as God spoke once more prior to the New Testament age. God then moved various men to record the books of the New Testament, and the last of these was Revelation. By the second century A.D., the complete canon exactly as we have it today was popularly recognized. Church councils in the fourth century verified and made official what the church has universally affirmed, that the sixty-six books in our Bibles are the only true Scripture inspired by God. The canon is complete.” John Macarthur.
“I personally encourage you to keep an open mind […]”
And I personally encourage *you* to stay away from an organisation that is no better than an open sewer.
“Do you know what I find hilarious? The fact that someone, such as yourself, has the nerve to belittle and harass those who defend Hillsong’s name”
You know what I find hilarious? No actually I find this sad. People defending HILLSONG’s name, rather than defending JESUS’s name, reputation, and His Word.
Maybe do your research before you pass judgement? Starting here might be helpful =) http://hillsong.com/media/1299193/annual-report-4814v27-lores.pdf
Also, giving is also very biblical (ofcourse in a loving and cheerful manner, otherwise your heart and intentions would not be in the right place if you give in an un-cheerful manner or are boastful)
Jesus encouraged us to be givers – Acts 20:35 “In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ”
And sometimes Christians need to be reminded and encouraged of Jesus’s words to be cheerful givers.
God bless you.
“Maybe do your research […]”
Maybe you should read your Bible.
“And sometimes Christians need to be reminded and encouraged of Jesus’s words to be cheerful givers.”
And other times, as in this case, Christians need to be reminded and encouraged of Jesus’s words they’d be better off avoiding false teachers. Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.”
I carefully read through all the comments posted here and I am left gasping for breath. This is the first time I have ever seen such an incredible response from Hillsong supporters (apologies for putting a label on people but I am unable to find another way to express it). They are usually very quiet.
Nothing stood out to me as much as the comment by “tiddlemouse” in which she refers to the Reverend Bill Crews as “that Uniting Church guy” and states that “he should stop feeling like a victim and stand united with his brothers and sisters”. If this lady is an example of what Hillsong is turning out as a result of its teaching then I now believe I CAN see a problem. “That Uniting Church guy”? I can’t believe I read it. Rev. Bill Crews AM and founder of the Exodus Foundation …. “that Uniting Church guy”? I presume your Pastor will pull you aside and take you to task for such disrespect! This “Uniting Church Guy” spends most of his week feeding and caring for those poor souls whom most of the rest of society doesn’t give a second glance. This “Uniting Church guy” is spending his days feeding those and showing love for those who much of society has largely ignored. He gives tirelessly, making sure that these poor and needy have food in their stomachs EVERY day, not just when there are celebrities or important people watching on. On Christmas Day he is there to make sure that the “great unwashed” of our Sydney streets have a meal in their stomachs, hear the Good News and experience God’s love first hand. Perhaps that is while you (and dare I suggest your Pastor?) are sitting in the comfort of your own lovely homes and concentrating on which present to open next. This “Uniting Church guy”, “tiddlemouse”, has a name and an identity and you didn’t even have the courtesy or respect to take note of either…… because you are no doubt too enthralled with the entertainment and the “hype” of Hillsong church.
“He could stop feeling like a victim”? I cannot believe that anyone would ever even show such disrespect as to infer that the Rev. Bill Crews behaved like a “victim”. I challenge you now, since you have made the statements, to phone Rev. Crews and offer to assist him for even just one day in his work. Will you do it? Please let me know your response. It won’t be pretty work though. You see Rev. Crews is not jumping around, singing and waving his hands in the air on Sundays , he is just quietly going about his work every day looking after lonely, sometimes dirty, sometimes addicted, many times angry and desperate people, BEING the hands, eyes, ears and words of Jesus. He doesn’t collect hundreds of thousands of dollars in salary every year…… he just quietly goes about his work, doing what he does in his Mission EVERY day. I cannot believe anyone would refer to this gentleman as “that Uniting Church guy”, but the fact that you did speaks volumes of what you are learning at Hillsong.
And before anyone jumps in ….. I am NOT a colleague of Rev. Crews and in fact have never met the gentleman but I have enough respect to know that this great Australian is certainly deserving of better than “tiddlemouse” can offer. Shame on you.
And herein lies the problem. Does dancing around in a building and getting all hyped up and listening to “pop” music teach you the fundamentals of respect of young people for their fellow man? Something is wrong “tiddlemouse” and I think you just exhibited it more adequately thant the churchwatch moderators could ever do.
And then we have “camillealabester”, an ex “newspaper editor” stating that Nick Xenephon presents himself as a champion of the people” and pointing out that he has “co-operated with such stories for the third time”. When did Senator Nick Xenophon EVER claim to be a “champion of the people”. I have never heard him make such a claim and would be very grateful if you would cite your reference. I would not be impressed with any man who made such an outrageous claim about himself. And why is a matter upon which a man comments “for a third time” about a matter on which he feels strongly, worthy of such a disdainful comment from you? What exactly does that mean? He is entitled……. actually is paid to ………. comment as many times as he feels necessary on any subject about which he feels strongly. He is OUR representative and that is his JOB.
Ladies you have both exhibited by your own words something that will give me personally food for thought. Of all the posts on this subject, you both exhibited something very sinister and worrying. Both of these eminent gentlemen deserve an immediate apology from you.
Or does that “Hillsong guy” not teach you good manners. I have no issue with people arguing or debating their respective points of view on this subject of Hillsong or any subject but really ladies……….. when you denigrate two fine Australian gentleman in attempt to defend Hillsong and Brian Houston I cannot remain silent.
“That Uniting church guy”…….. who has received the honour of being Member of the Order of Australia is deserving of slightly better that being referred to as “that Uniting Church Guy” is he not? And he didn’t receive that honour by acting as a “victim”. He received it by doing what I suspect neither you nor your pastor have ever done! Has it occurred to you “tiddlemouse” that Rev. Bill Crews has little time to “stand united with his brother and sisters”…… he is too busy feeding God’s children!
You never answered my initial question: please follow up your statement: “Hillsong is militantly campaigning against biblical Christianity.”
Please explain.
Nor did you acknowledge the fact that you can trace every penny spent by the church. I would think someone such as your self would LOVE to find support for your claims in such a document.
I find it interesting that you pick and choose what to respond to in these comments, yet you can’t back your own statements. Looks like a case of keyboard courage for the ole watchdog. Lol
Penelope/M – we don’t “owe” you an explanation. If you’re not prepared to hold these movements and their prosperity gospel up to the light of God’s Word, don’t expect us to do more work than we have already done.
“I find it interesting that you pick and choose what to respond to in these comments”
Even more interesting is how Brian Houston and Hillsongers pick and choose which Scriptures they believe.
“Please explain.”
Is that you, Pauline?
This website is hilarious. Praying that you found your freedom in Christ alone and not in persecuting other people. It’s not really your place to judge the way Hilsong is run- or how it appears to have run. There are many Christians who have been hurt by churches- regardless of their congregation size and financial situation. It’s isn’t an exclusive issue to Hilsong.
If you have personally been hurt by Hilsong, I hope you can learn to forgive them as Jesus forgave you on the cross.
At the end of the day, why try bring down a ministry that actually does great things and get caught up in such a tangled hyper-analysis that you can actually be wrong about. You’re not sent by God to judge other people. Nobody is. It sounds like you know your way around the bible pretty well, so have another read. Revelations come all the time. Maybe there will be one on offence, grace, forgiveness, anger, judgement, plank in your eye and some in love as well. I’m sure you know this, that God sees the heart and above all loves you for who you are.
If you want to change and revolutionise the world with Christ, perhaps turn your eye onto the world. Rather than bringing down your church. Prosperity gospel is weird. Word of faith is awesome, though.
“At the end of the day, why try bring down a ministry that actually does great things”
matthew 7:21-23
“21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ 23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’”
Let’s be totally honest now. What about some of those not-so-great things that Hillsong has done?
Ex word-of-faith of preachers disagree with you about WOF’s awesomeness!!! http://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com/
“This website is hilarious.”
Actually, what is hilarious is the fact that you can’t even spell “hillsong” correctly.
“It’s not really your place to judge the way Hilsong is run- or how it appears to have run.”
“It sounds like you know your way around the bible pretty well, so have another read.”
Aar, Maybe its *you* that needs to have another read:
1 Corinthians 5:11-12
“11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler– not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?”
Check out this article How Pastors Get Rich to find out how these guys make their money: http://www.cultwatch.com/howpastorsgetrich.html
Also http://www.TithingDebate.com if you think tithing is for Christians today.
I’ve looked at your website before. Some very interesting things on there…. I’ve taken down a few notes thanks to your research. Appreciate it.
By their fruits they will be known.
So to be annointed and blessed is wrong?
Giving / tithing has been part of all churches.
Tell me one that doesn’t.
As you give so will you recieve, nobody forces anyone to give / tithe, it’s a personal choice, not a right of passage.
Hillsong is annointed and blessed.
“Hillsong is annointed and blessed.”
Which is why the police is investigating your pastor who covered up pedophilia in his movement.
That really sounds like a movement that is anointed and blessed.
Where is your evidence that the NSW Police are investigating Brian Houston? The royal commission counsel recommended Houston be referred to the NSW Police but there has been no announcement that this will happen.
A N O I N T E D. Sorry, grammar nazi syndrome.
No one has suggested giving is wrong. We know the Lord loves a cheerful giver and a manipulated giver is hardly cheerful if they’re honest.
2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver”.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“A N O I N T E D. Sorry, grammar nazi syndrome.”
Fully concur with that: seeing it spelt as “annointed” is really, really anoying.
“Giving / tithing has been part of all churches.”
1. Giving and Tithing are two different things which are not synonymous. You cannot group them together.
2. Correction. “Tithing” has NOT been part of all churches. “Tithing” has been part of all WORD OF FAITH churches. Most of the churches I have belonged to NEVER told us “tithing” was a New Testament principle.
Yes Gerald! …….. Exactly! ………. BY THEIR FRUITS!!!!!
1. A trail of broken and hurt people who have been left behind suffering from damage done to them by actions of Houston and others of his ilk? Judge indeed, by the fruit.
Big crowds, money and big buildings are NOT the Fruit to which the Bible refers.
The recurring messages from those supporting this church during this exchange have been centered around the fact that Hillsong is entertaining and “relevant” (whatever that means!) and “non-traditional”……
There is a veiled undertone which gives me the impression that many would not attend worship if the only alternative was the quiet little church on the corner…………. I DID attend Hillsong by the way! And I was ashamed to hear myself say to a work colleague one day “Come along to church with me on Sunday, you’ll love the music!” I suddenly was struck with the realisation of why I was attending. It was for the ENTERTAINMENT! It never occurred to me to say “Come along to church with me on Sunday, you’ll love the message about our sinful natures and the Saving Grace of Jesus”. It never occurred to me because up until then I had never heard that message preached at Hillsong!!!!! I found another church.
2. “So to be annointed (sic) and blessed is wrong”?
Will someone PLEASE explain to me where this constant flippant use of the word “anointed” came to be accepted as okay?
Who decides if something or someone is “anointed” or not? Do you know the meaning of the word? I am so sick and tired of hearing how everything and everybody is “anointed”! “Anointed” books, DVD’s, CD’s pens ….. people GET A GRIP! THINK before you use this word.
3. “Giving/tithing has been part of all churches”. Actually not true but that is a debate for another day. What is so unsavoury and casts suspicion is the hype which accompanies the collection in some churches. No quiet passing around of a plate, or basket or bag………. aha no!!! A protracted message telling people “why” they should tithe, and even what they can expect in return if they give generously. At one point my C3 pastor stood in church and instructed the congregation that we were never to give to other people or families in the church who we thought might be in need without first CHECKING with him. Perhaps he was little afraid the tithes might suffer if money was being given to other people first. And what of the Pentecostal services I have attended when the Pastor has told the congregation that God has “given him a word” that there will be 20 people that night who will give $100 each (N.B. the amount of people and the amount of money differs according to the occasion) and that the service will not end until that “word is fulfilled”! Please do not try to kid anyone that there is not pressure involved with this tithe business. Next time pay attention to the message given preceding and during the offering, and then the music playing in the background and then all the subliminal messages that are encouraging you to empty your pockets! You are deceiving yourself if you think these offerings are “free will offerings” and deceiving yourself if you think that the money is being used for God’s work in every case. It simply isn’t true.
If you need all these special effects to entice you to worship you need to look at your relationship with our wonderful Lord. Without the smoke machines, the loud music, the entertainment and all the “fun” is it still your fervent desire to get to church on Sunday…… any church …… and worship the Lord?
If you wish to attend a mega church with loud music, smoke and mirrors, and seek out signs and wonders and idolise the “celebrity” of those that lead some of these institutions, that’s fine. But at least be honest about your reasons for attending. If you enjoy the entertainment , then just say so, but please dont’ accuse those who question it of “not knowing Jesus” or “hate” or being “jealous”.
And when the Pastor reaches for his glass of water during the service and lifts it up only to find a goldfish swimming around in it, causing the congregation to roll in the aisles with fits of laughter, ask yourself if such behaviour is honestly that which belongs in a service of worship for God or whether it would be better suited to entertainment down at the local football club. (Yes, the Pastor in question was Brian Houston!) Of course there are those who will come out barking that God has a sense of humour. No argument! But a service of worship and one where we should be hearing the message of sin and of Saving Grace is NOT the place for it.
Stop The Brian Bashing.
My guide and discernment is the Holy Spirit.
If Brian has done wrong then the Holy Spirit will lead him to repentance through conviction, not condemnation.
But for me personally, I don’t see what he or Hillsong have done wrong.
I have been to many Pentecostal churches from varying denominations, I have been to Hillsong as well. As I said previously to have an anointing/gift and be blessed is not a sin
“But for me personally, I don’t see what he or Hillsong have done wrong.”
Please tell exactly how much time have you spent looking into Brian and Hillsong? Please be sincere.
“Stop The Brian Bashing.”
Tell Brian to stop his scripture-twisting and blaspheming.
“As I said previously to have an anointing/gift and be blessed is not a sin”
What anointing/gift are you referring to, Brian’s gift to produce false teachings?
Brian is not who you should emulate to be , nor should any pastor.
Jesus is our example.
If Brian has done wrong then he has God to answer to.
It’s not for me or you to judge.
As you judge, so will you be judged.
1 John 4:1-6 “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.”
Being informed is not being judgmental. Bereans were commended. Do you think Bereans were judgmental?
Again, how much time you spent looking into Brian and Hillsong?
We are praying for Hillsong members who visit here. Please hear what we are saying and read the below links. We WILL give you physical evidence to justify our supposed unfair claims.
To all our Hillsong readers, what is missing in all this discussion is the centrality of Christ and His finished work on Calvary. We have physcial evidence that your beloved leaders preach a false Jesus that hopes to bless you with health, wealth and power.
They will preach that Jesus died to make you rich and to find your purpose, destiny and God-given dreams. But to unlock the blessings of God you need to commit to “The Cause” of Christ, tithe, be planted in Hillsong, submit to your leaders, speaking positive, think positive, feel positive… the list goes on.
According to your pastors god, it is up to you to make yourself right standing before it. You have got to do your part. And that is not the gospel. That is not grace. And that is certainly not love.
If you still think we are mean critics and horrible people, please critique us presenting the TRULY good news in contrast to your leader’s ‘good news’:
http://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2012/10/23/from-brian-houstons-own-lips/
http://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2013/03/04/brian-houstons-gospel/
We stand on God’s definition of love – not man’s definition of love. This means love will have to say some heavy things sometimes. In saying that, we pray you receive what we have said in this comment and in the above articles in love. The issues we are talking about have eternal consequences.
Hahahaha this is such bull crap hahaha i go to hillsong, male 20, yeah the odd laser light can hit u on the eye and annoy me… but it is not the way you say it is matey… no even close its a good modern church haha im not even mad this hilarious to me because its so ridiculous,, go to an extension service one time and see what its like i urge you… no i dare you, then get back to me !
“Hahahaha this is such bull crap hahaha i go to hillsong, male 20, yeah the odd laser light can hit u on the eye and annoy me… but it is not the way you say it is matey […]”
It’s great to see that hillsong is chock-full to overflowing with Biblically-literate Spirit-filled individuals who can mount a coherent and convincing defence of the movement and its methods. So much for all those people who reckoned that hillsong was only for brain-dead bogans and half-witted hipsters, eh?
“hahaha i go to hillsong”
That was obvious after reading the first word of your post.
“go to an extension service one time and see what its like i urge you… no i dare you”
I urge you to read your Bible one time and see what it’s like… no I dare you.
God is in control, He has a plan. Let Jesus do the judging. Love one another, be unified for by this they will know you are my disciples. All glory honour and praise to Him who sits on the throne. holy, holy holy is the Lord God almighty. Alleluia. Look to Jesus author and perfect or of our faith.
Pull your bible up. Your ignorance is showing.
“God is in control […]”
Don’t tell Brian Houston that; he’ll get very, very angry and throw you out of hillsong.
““God is in control […]””
Except when you refrain from giving your hard earned cash from Hillsong.
Hillsong’s official statement claims they didn’t invest 1 cent into this movie. All done by an outside company. So how is that a part of this attack on them? And to criticize a church because celebrities attend is a WEAK tactic. “Go into ALL the world…”, “Who wants ALL people to be saved…” and countless other scriptures encourage us to reach the poor AND rich…some of us just know these two groups as…PEOPLE. We should celebrate this. Hillsong also posts their financial records. There’s no secrecy there. The only argument in this had to do with if ALL churches be taxed. This was a poorly stated, mostly fictional and distasteful segment that leaves a lot of people, yet again, disappointed in bad media.
Hilllsongs statement
http://hillsong.com/media/statement-by-hillsong-church-on-a-current-affair-story-april-21-2015
Are you from Hillsong Zac? Your ignorance and lack of biblical discernment indicates to us that you are. If not, are you part of a church that washes its brains in Hillsong’s trashy music?
“And to criticize a church because celebrities attend is a WEAK tactic.”
Nobody here said celebrities cannot be saved or attend churches.
Hillsong is criticized because it USES celebrities to increase its wealth and influence.
Hillsong is a user, they use people. Once they’re done with you because they can’t use you anymore, they chew you up and spit you back out into the world.
Maybe it will be better to preach the gospel rather to judge other.
The time you lost writen about hillsong show how is your heart.
You want to change the world. Ask god to show you how. And if hillsong is bad (i don t think so) lets god fix the problem
“Maybe it will be better to preach the gospel […]”
Maybe it would be better if Brian Houston preached the Gospel; unfortunately this simple task appears to be completely beyond him.
“Maybe it will be better to preach the gospel rather to judge other.”
Maybe it would be better for you to read a Bible, rather than show your ignorance by commenting here.
They arent ripping people off
It’s called the tithe doctrine. And look how many people have been brainwashed into believing this somehow harmonises with the Christian faith.
“They arent ripping people off”
hannahj, You are as ignorant as they get. Now for a dose of reality….
Tithing proponents ALWAYS make these 2 assertions….
(1) Tithing is an N.T. doctrine.
(2) Tithes ALWAYS go to YOUR LOCAL church.
Tithing Recap: the N.T. makes the rule you MUST pay 10%, and it MUST go to THEM. Any giving beyond that is “generous” and up to your own discretion where & how much.
The magic trick: if (2) were completely removed across the Church as a whole, meaning “tithes” were only given to everyone’s favorite external ministry….
NO PASTOR WOULD EVER PUSHING TITHING AGAIN.
ALL SERMONS ON TITHING WOULD CEASE FOREVER.
“They arent ripping people off”
Of course they’re not. Brian Houston is fully entitled to his $300,000 per annum (all taken in the most tax-effective manner possible, of course), and Bobbie Houston is likewise entitled to have her snout stuck just as deeply into the trough as it will go, too.
Did you know that Brian has a Breitling watch? Are you one of the people who attends hillsong and who helped to pay for that extravagant bit of bling? Tell us Hannah, what sort of watch do *you* wear?
Churchwatch I think you need Jesus. We’re meant to grow to be more like him, and he is loving, gracious, forgiving and so much more. Who are you to cast all these stones? Good on Hillsong for reaching people that others may have shunned or disregarded. Jesus is for everyone which makes him inclusive.
Was Jesus always kind?
Matthew 23:13-33
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.[a] 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell[b] as yourselves.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?”
“Good on Hillsong for reaching people that others may have shunned or disregarded.”
So you’re saying that hillsong has never shunned anyone?
“Jesus is for everyone which makes him inclusive.”
Yeah, sure: the “broad road” messiah who is the thinking univeralist’s false saviour. It looks like you’re going to be “included” with the multitudes in the lake of fire, sad.
It’s so sad to see a website like this. And to also find there is a church watch for C3,CHC, YFG and who knows how many others. Running a website like this, where every single fault is brought to light is just ridiculous. No church is perfect, because no body is perfect. I don’t why this website is spending all this time bringing down churches who stand for the same reason this website does; Jesus. Every church is different, and every church goes about things in different ways. The world already has negative connotations on the church, so why people who believe in Jesus would go out of their way to further influence the negative stereotypes truly astounds me. Personally I believe that a church who makes mistakes is better than no church at all. Why waste all this time and money pointing out faults of other churches when you could invest your resources in getting out in the world, being the light and helping those in need. Leave the judgments till judgement day! The only verse I really want to bring up is ‘Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.’
And we started these sites because these cults create Christians like yourself to believe secularist philosophies and not the teachings of Christ.
The scriptures tell us to believe in heavenly things, that which is noble and true.
God calls us to appeal to higher standards. But look at what you are appealing to:
“No church is perfect, because no body is perfect.”
While the Christian standard is Christ’s perfection (Eph 4) you are wanting us to appeal to the lowest standard or no standard at all.
We would encourage you to read the Pauls letters in the New Testament where you will see how he appeals to the gospel itself so that we have higher expectations of the biblical church offices. And it is by this biblical appeal that these sites exist. SO naturally, light will condemn the darkness that we see emerging from false teachers like Yonggi Cho who is simply preaching paganism and lies using the bible to hide.
churchwatcher ? do you believe about praying in tongues, do you believe in headings today ?
Quick answer? Praying in tongues (language not gibberish)? Not without interpretation. Headings? 😄 Healings? I believe God heals as He wills, not as we demand.
By the way Dave, there are a few Churchwatcher administrators commenting here, some charismatic, some reformed, some Lutheran, all in agreement on sound doctrine, all very concerned about the trajectory of some church movements today.
Hillsong is a business not a Church. The pastor of this so called Church must be earning absolute millions which is more than the average pastor
Stu – Apparently he only earns $150,000 per year. But I guess there are “pastoral perks” to cover his lifestyle etc.
$150,000 per year may not “sound” unreasonable at first, but after you add it up for 20 or 25 years, it’s a lot and way more than most Christians will ever earn. And after throwing in all the family members’ salaries, whew!
And don’t forget the “pastoral perks”.
Also with respect, perhaps a complimentary copy of “Lies, Lust, Greed” would help pass the time.
@ Jerry Z – http://www.biblesociety.org.au/news/brian-houston-theres-huge-difference-living-rich-living-blessed
A little naïveté from the Bible Society.
People will always find a way to destroy any christian church that is successful! Hillsong have worked hard to be where they are now and they surely earned it! If those many people go to their church it’s because they trust them. Hillsong did not become a huge church out of the blue! They started the same way other churches did and hillsong has been around for a long time and they didn’t just all of a sudden appeared and became famous and big in just a month. Hillsong doesn’t steal people from other churches. Those people can go to wherever church they believe should go! and why do any of you care of where the money goes? You don’t tithe to Hillsong so why give you the privilege to know? If you’re a tither then it is a different story! Don’t even bring up Brian’s salary in this. How sure are you that all the money he gets comes from hillsong? Are you his accountant? Have you looked into his account? Do you know what goes in and out of his account? If you have no proof don’t judge and talk like you know everything. You know nothing and you haven’t even asked them about anything. All this is caused by jealousy. If you see a successful church you judge them by thinking they are corrupt. hang on…. These churches also have bands who sold their albums like any other artists in the world. Get your facts right! While you sit here waste your time judging, they have done more to help than you do. My advice is go and ask them! I’m sure they’d be happy to talk to you and clarify your judgmental thoughts!
People will always find a way to destroy any christian church that is successful! Hillsong have worked hard to be where they are now and they surely earned it! If those many people go to their church it’s because they trust them. Hillsong did not become a huge church out of the blue! They started the same way other churches did and hillsong has been around for a long time and they didn’t just all of a sudden appeared and became famous and big in just a month. Hillsong doesn’t steal people from other churches. Those people can go to wherever church they believe should go! and why do any of you care of where the money goes? You don’t tithe to Hillsong so why give you the privilege to know? If you’re a tither then it is a different story! Don’t even bring up Brian’s salary in this. How sure are you that all the money he gets comes from hillsong? Are you his accountant? Have you looked into his account? Do you know what goes in and out of his account? If you have no proof don’t judge and talk like you know everything. You know nothing and you haven’t even asked them about anything. All this is caused by jealousy. If you see a successful church you judge them by thinking they are corrupt. hang on…. These churches also have bands who sold their albums like any other artists in the world. Get your facts right! While you sit here waste your time judging, they have done more to help than you do. My advice is go and ask them! I’m sure they’d be happy to talk to you and clarify your judgmental thoughts!
This is a website created by jealous church people
What are we “jealous” of, Anony/ThinkingDeep/Doonah/Don? Brian Houston’s ability to eisegete rather exegete the scriptures correctly? Brian’s ongoing relationship with heretics i.e. T.D. Jakes (well-known modalist, trinity-denying, oneness Pentecostal)? Brian’s ability (and finances) to create such a light & sound show that he actually mesmerises the masses into believing the Holy Spirit is present?
Please decide which pseudonym you’re going to use! By the way, comments go automatically into moderation, until an administrator approves them.
And apparently Hillsong has released their financials, which is how we know the figure given as Brian’s salary. There’s no way that very small amount can pay for the lifestyle he leads, it all boils down to extra “pastoral perks”.
it’s called adapting to new generation to make young people feel comfortable and be themselves and feel welcomed! Do you even think young people would go to a very traditional church? Have you ever seen young people go to a very traditional quiet church? Have you ever seen young people feel comfortable when they’re in a very quiet church? If you have a child who doesn’t want to eat vegetables wouldn’t you try find an alternative way for them to eat their vegetables? If Brian Houston and his church wants to make their church look that way well it’s their style and that’s how they see their church and what makes you think that the use of light and sound is his/their way to “mesmerise” the masses into believing the Holy Spirit is present? it’s funny how of all that I’ve said you’ve only picked up and reacted in jealousy… Bro we’re in a world that is changing. Churches needs to find a way and to adapt to a culture that is changing for people to still be interested like everything else in this world. Get your facts right first.
Yes as a matter of fact I do see young people very happily attending a very traditional church, in fact they are former members of the very church culture you see as the answer to this generation. These same young people realised they are not hearing the gospel, that they were being entertained more than fed, and our Lord with great grace and kindness led them to still waters and restored their souls.
People will always find a way to destroy any christian church that is successful! Hillsong have worked hard to be where they are now and they surely earned it! If those many people go to their church it’s because they trust them. Hillsong did not become a huge church out of the blue! They started the same way other churches did and hillsong has been around for a long time and they didn’t just all of a sudden appeared and became famous and big in just a month. Hillsong doesn’t steal people from other churches. Those people can go to wherever church they believe should go! and why do any of you care of where the money goes? You don’t tithe to Hillsong so why give you the privilege to know? If you’re a tither then it is a different story! Don’t even bring up Brian’s salary in this. How sure are you that all the money he gets comes from hillsong? Are you his accountant? Have you looked into his account? Do you know what goes in and out of his account? If you have no proof don’t judge and talk like you know everything. You know nothing and you haven’t even asked them about anything. All this is caused by jealousy. If you see a successful church you judge them by thinking they are corrupt. hang on…. These churches also have bands who sold their albums like any other artists in the world. Get your facts right! While you sit here waste your time judging, they have done more to help than you do. My advice is go and ask them! I’m sure they’d be happy to talk to you and clarify your judgmental thoughts!
A bitter person full of hate… feel sorry for you man
And there we have it! “Do you even think young people would go to a very traditional church? Have you ever seen young people go to a very traditional quiet church? Have you ever seen young people feel comfortable when they’re in a very quiet traditional church?” So, an admission that for many who go to Hillsong the main focus is NOT about worshipping God, it’s about feeling “comfortable” and enjoying the noise. (And as for comparing worship to eating one’s vegetables……. well.) So Don, are you saying that if a Hillsong church wasn’t accessible to many of these people they would choose NOT to go to church,….. they would choose not to go and worship our Heavenly Father ? interesting. Well, doesn’t that say it all !!!!!!! No more needs to be said.
And that was the most amazing piece of brainwashed trash we have ever seen written on CWC. Well done Don. Do you have ANY clue what Christianity is? Do you even have a moral standard to base your illogical arguments? You may pity us but you need serious mental help mate.
People will always find a way to destroy any christian church that is successful! Hillsong have worked hard to be where they are now and they surely earned it! If those many people go to their church it’s because they trust them. Hillsong did not become a huge church out of the blue! They started the same way other churches did and hillsong has been around for a long time and they didn’t just all of a sudden appeared and became famous and big in just a month. Hillsong doesn’t steal people from other churches. Those people can go to wherever church they believe should go! and why do any of you care of where the money goes? You don’t tithe to Hillsong so why give you the privilege to know? If you’re a tither then it is a different story! Don’t even bring up Brian’s salary in this. How sure are you that all the money he gets comes from hillsong? Are you his accountant? Have you looked into his account? Do you know what goes in and out of his account? If you have no proof don’t judge and talk like you know everything. You know nothing and you haven’t even asked them about anything. All this is caused by jealousy. If you see a successful church you judge them by thinking they are corrupt. hang on…. These churches also have bands who sold their albums like any other artists in the world. Get your facts right! While you sit here waste your time judging, they have done more to help than you do. My advice is go and ask them! I’m sure they’d be happy to talk to you and clarify your judgmental thoughts!
A bitter person full of hate… feel sorry for you man.
Why is the church being harassed for accommodating celebrities? Are they not people too? They should be welcomed just as you and I. We are ALL sinners! It is very sad how you have forgotten the ways of Jesus.
“We are ALL sinners!”
So have you informed Brian that he is a sinner, then?
“It is very sad how you have forgotten the ways of Jesus.”
No, what is sad is that you yourself have never known those ways.
I see a lot of hate & judgement here. Look inside your heart & admit it. That’s not how Jesus commanded his followers to live. Very sad. We actually have a real enemy you know. Maybe you should consider devoting your energies to resisting Satan & his antichrist religion, Islam.
Of course you’d see hate and judgment. You don’t know how to hate lies and love truth. Hate liars and love those who are trying to present the truth.
“Maybe you should consider devoting your energies to resisting Satan & his antichrist religion, Islam.”
We’re ahead of you on that – we rebuked Brian’s god.
Let’s compare the fruits of Hillsong and “churchwatcher”. How many thousands of lives have you changed, mr churchwatcher? Sure there are always going to be some some disgruntlement, this is found in any church, big or small. As a whole, a ministry that gives millions to social causes around the world is a force for good. I don’t go to HS but have visited for several months when I was working interstate in Sydney and I cannot fault their worship, giving and impact in the local community, Why don’t people just compare the actual output in terms of dollars spent in their community of this church and the church next door? No, because it is so much more scandalous to talk about how much money they make/get/earn , isnt it? Churchwatcher – if you really want to make a useful impact, why don’t just YOU build a ministry of thousands of volunteers in multiple countries who love God, gives freely and impacts society that is as exemplary as you think it should be? Very easy to be an armchair critic, isn’t it? Pathetic, you are.
You can’t even love God in your posting of this comment.
You are yet another person who claims to be a Christian but exalts man and man’s works above God and God’s finished work.
Why on earth should we give you an indepth response when you have clearly no regard for Christ and His Apostle’s teachings in relation to this topic.
We can actually answer this but it’s only going to glorify us and not God.
Stand on the authority of scriptures – not men. Maybe then we will listen to you.
“I cannot fault their worship, giving and impact in the local community […]”
Oh, so if *you* can’t fault them, I guess that’s OK then – after all, God has appointed you as the plumb-line for all things, hasn’t he?
“Pathetic, you are.”
Says the arrogant prat who is ever-so-full of herself.
“Let’s compare the fruits of Hillsong and “churchwatcher”. How many thousands of lives have you changed, mr church watcher?”
Kit, yes compare their fruits. How many lives have they have changed?
# lives Mr Churchwatcher has DESTROYED — none.
# lives (and families) Mr Hillsong has DESTROYED — MANY.
which is exalted among men …. well we should know it can hardly be from God.
multiplication of bread without it being broken , bread that satisfies not , what kind of bread is that ? Not the Bread of Life came from heaven and was broken. I don’t know about you but what is ‘relevant’ in christianity today is very boring, almost immediately. Hillsong have very boring meetings , there is nothing good to eat or drink. Excitement of the flesh and methods of the world ! The Kingdom of God is never boring like this , althought It may attract not the sights of men which looks at appearances of success. Ah to be filled with the Truth , rooted in Him , born again by the Holy Word and Breathe of the living God , bought by the precious blood of Jesus. You don’t really need to run here and there , following the crowd. Where is the message of the Cross in Hillsong ? The Gospel that pierces the hearts ? To pierced ears and humble hearts God may speak to.
Well, things can go wild. Maybe if necessary, you could make an appointment to meet the chairman to interview him for the sake of accountability. Every word that he replies, whether true or false it will be his own accountability to God. God is abundant, He gives His belongings to His stewards to take charge like in the parable of the talents. To the extent, God is still sovereign of all. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, behold what you speak to His temple. The temple is more than who we are, take charge of it.
a priest of Israel once said about the cult of christianity, leave it alone , if it is not of G-D it will self destruct, but if it is of G-D, you may very well find yourself fighting against G-D.
Thank you ABC for opening my eyes to the great things Hillsong is doing around the world. I’ve heard of them in the past, but had no idea they were so effectively reaching this world for Jesus. I will be a lifelong supporter from now on. Thanks again, ABC!