Peter Wagner: Christianity’s most dangerous and influential heretic – dead

When you look at the mess and instability within contemporary evangelicalism, when you see self-appointed Apostles spiritually abusing men and women in churches around the world today, you can attribute the source of all this spiritual corruption to one man:

C. PETER WAGNER

A heretic who thought he was an apostle.
A tare who thought he was sowing wheat.
A bramble who thought he was producing fruit.
A goat who thought he was building the church.
A blasphemer who thought he was going to heaven.
A wandering star who thought he was offering direction.
A salt water spring who thought he was offering fresh water.
A lost soul who thought they were leading the church
through the gates of the Kingdom of God…

Lest we forget Wagner –
so that none ever forget the dangers of heretics in Christ’s church,

may his gravestone be a millstone.


If C. Peter Wagner can be credited with achieving anything significant, he helped identify, within the Charismatic Renewal movement, the agenda of the New Order of the Latter Rain cult, observing the rise of these self-appointed Apostles and Prophets and their “new wineskin” churches.

“Unless I’m mistaken, the most radical of all the changes from the old wineskin to the new wineskin is this: the amount of spiritual authority delegated by the Holy Spirit to individuals. The two operative words are authority and individuals.”

Source: C. Peter Wagner, Charisma Magazine, http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/church-ministry/15676-where-are-the-apostles-and-prophets, Published 25/06/2014. (Accessed 18/11/2015.)

However, rather than call out this heretical cult movement, hidden under the guise of the ‘Charismatic Renewal’, he attempted to be its leader, naming it the New Apostolic Reformation.

“I needed a name … For a couple of years I experimented with ‘Post denominationalism’. The name I have settled on for the movement is the New Apostolic Reformation.”

Source: C. Peter Wagner, The New Apostolic Churches, Ventura CA; Regal, 1998, p. 18.

Did this man unfortunately gain the whole world but lose his soul?  Until someone can demonstrate that this false Apostle and Prophet has repented of his false teachings, one could sadly ask this – is he now standing before God answering to this:

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” Matthew 7:22-23

This is a man who shipwrecked the faith of so many undiscerning souls and has now gone onto his reward – or lack thereof.

Nevertheless, Charisma News and their followers show that their apparently seared consciences are hard at work promoting the lies and propaganda about C. Peter. Wagner.

This will be an interesting time to see who lends their support, who endorses and promotes the life and ministry of C. Peter Wagner. To our readers, please keep us posted on popular evangelical leaders who acknowledge his death. Those who acknowledge him are most likely Apostles.

Jennifer LeClaire writes,


Apostolic Pioneer C. Peter Wagner Goes on to Glory

Peter Wagner, a pioneer in the apostolic ministry, has gone home to be with the Lord. He was 86 years old, passing away at 2:30 p.m. Friday.

Wagner suffered from congestive heart failure in part of his heart. In June, he underwent two surgeries. The first was to drain his abdominal cavity of excess fluid. This second surgery is to repair the lungs and pour talcum powder into the lungs, which repairs the leaky lungs.

Wagner’s friend, apostle Chuck Pierce, confirmed Wagner’s death on his Facebook page Friday, calling Wagner “one of the greatest molders of modern church history.”

Wagner is recognized as a leading authority in the fields of church growth and spiritual warfare. He is co-founder of World Prayer Center and is chancellor of the Wagner Institute in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Wagner holds graduate degrees in theology, missiology and religion from Fuller Theological Seminary, Princeton Theological Seminary and the University of Southern California.

Wagner served as a field missionary in Bolivia for 16 years and he taught on the faculty of the School of Intercultural Studies at Fuller Seminary for 30 years. Wagner ministers extensively nationally and internationally from his home base in Colorado. He has written 70 books, including Prayer Shield, Territorial Spirits, and Apostles and Prophets.

Wagner is survived by his wife, Doris.

The former apostolic leader was admitted to the hospital on Sept. 23 for what his wife, Doris, termed as a ”weakened condition.”

Charisma News will bring you more details and reaction from Wagner’s death among ministry leaders as they become available.

Source: By Jennifer LeClaire, Apostolic Pioneer C. Peter Wagner Goes on to Glory, Charisma News, http://www.charismanews.com/us/60747-apostolic-pioneer-c-peter-wagner-goes-on-to-glory, Published 21/10/2016. (Accessed 21/10/2016.)

Email us with your comments and questions  to: c3churchwatch@hotmail.com

61 comments

  1. STAN Q.

    Wagner was one of the greatest (if you can call it that) false teachers of all times. He was a true pioneer trailblazer, leading the way, teaching others how to be false teachers too and fleece the flock. He had it down to an art. He took incredible advantage of millions of uber gullible Christians. He was mentored by John Wimber. This “spiritual lineage” was poison ivy. Too bad he was not called out for the heretic he was early on, if he had been called out early on then the heretical nar movement would not have gotten as big as it is today.

    Like

  2. Kdent

    I think it is a shame that you criticize a man at his death. Jesus said do not judge lest yea be judged in the manner it was given. You christians that criticize and judge what others are doing in the power and authority that Jesus died for and left through the power of the Holy Spirit – you sound just like the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus day that denied Him and killed Him. I pray you humble your own hearts and allow God’s mercy and truth reign in your own heart instead of judging and criticizing for something you don’t understand, or have explained away because you haven’t experienced His power in your own life or are bound by a religious spirit. Again like Jesus said be on guard against the leaven of the Pharisees and saduccees
    I bless you all with the Love of Jesus to break through in your life

    Liked by 1 person

    • Kent- if you think we are the one with humility problems, you clearly do not understand how arrogant and clearly biblically illiterate your response. You pmight actually need to know Jesus Christ before you actually comment on things to do with the Christian Faith.
      You’re just another goat who thinks they are a Christian. Tragic really.

      Liked by 1 person

    • We are to judge the righteous judgement…
      Thing is… Mr Wagner never geared anybody to embrace TORAH…
      To do the Shabbats… To observe YAHUWEH’s Appointed Times, to eat Kosher.
      The answer to that is in MATT 7:22-24 which says Mr Wagner does not have Salvation.
      SAD.

      Like

    • thinker

      Going from New Apostolic Reformation to Hebrew Roots Movement is jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

      Like

  3. Lester

    “Pharisees and Sadducees”

    Correction to you. The Pharisees and Sadducees were not saved at all, but we ‘criticizers’ who post on this and similar websites are born again Christians.

    What’s the real shame here is that you ignore verses telling the Body of Christ to mark and avoid false teachers, while you CHOOSE instead to disobey and exalt the very same false teachers who are leading unsuspecting persons to hell with their false gospels.

    This man Wagner will be memorialized by the NAR community. Someone (such as we who understand his lies) MUST tell the truth. Paul said to tell the truth, not lie to cover it up and exalt false teachers at their death.

    And oh ho ho YES WE HAVE experienced NAR. And WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH of it. NAR is a LIE!

    Like

  4. Lester

    2 Cor 11:4 …. For if someone [C PETER WAGNER] comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

    That verse does not say: “Memorialize false teachers upon their death.”

    What it does say however is: “You should have never listened to him [C PETER WAGNER] in the first place while he was alive.” Now that he is gone, he has even far less to say. Stop exalting your false teacher worship.

    Like

  5. Shawn

    He who has a Ministry that criticizes other Ministries doesn’t have a Ministry at all.

    Liked by 1 person

    • m babineaux

      Peter Wagner was a False Teacher. False Teachers do not have ministries to begin with. So this article was not critizizing “another ministry.”

      Like

    • Wagner doesn’t have a ministry. It’s made up. Oddly enough, it was Wagner who hated Christ and his church so much that he called Christ’s church “old wineskin” and then proceeded to reinvent the church to his own ideas. So your words condemn Wagner not us.

      Like

  6. Racz

    Wonder who is going to take over his Global Spheres Organization. You know that organization that promotes wealth transfer, apostate Christianity, and promotes and is establishing the harlot church. Check it out. Their judgement lingereth not. Just shows how true God and his word is.

    Like

  7. Barry K

    My condolences to the family of the late Peter Wagner. I have no doubts that he loved God and his Saviour Jesus Christ. He wanted to restore the church to its former glory as in Acts and turn the world upside down through power evangelism. He was sincere in his love for God and the church, though we may rightly say he was sincerely wrong in his theology. But to say or doubt or judge his salvation would require us to have insight of a ‘prophet’ that can peer into his soul, which of course goes against cessationist’s thoughts. I would similarly shudder if Dave Hunt question John MacArthur’s salvation simply on his Calvinist beliefs of ‘election’ which Dave regard as heresy, and require him to repent. Lets support and pray for Peter’s family.

    Like

    • simply joey

      But to say or doubt or judge his salvation would require us to have insight of a ‘prophet’ that can peer into his soul

      no not really all one has to do is look at the “version” of “gospel” the man preached. or if he preached the “Gospel” at all.

      Like

    • simply joey

      He was sincere in his love for God and the church

      how can you suggest wagner loved God when wagner made up stuff about the bible??
      how can you suggest wagner loved the church when he skimmed off lots of money from believers??
      think about it. what youre saying doesnt even make any sense.

      Like

    • simply joey

      in fact name just 1 false tchr/prophet who you think loves God. how can you love God and not defend integrity of the bible?? seems literally like a big big impossibility. its a major major contradiction.

      Like

    • Michael Wark

      2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
      Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

      2Pe_2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
      Jud_1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
      The Word of God is the judge – not those who read the Bible in search of the TRUTH
      Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
      Wagner preached another Gospel – had another Jesus and another spirit.

      Like

  8. Run from NAR

    Sincerity and passion do not make the false Jesus and the false gospel that Wagner taught true. They remain false and as such he had no true ministry or hope of salvation.

    Like

  9. Another Discerner

    False teacher. False gospel. False salvation.

    Like

  10. May YAHUWAH have mercy on his soul at the Judgement Seat.
    Making money in the Name of YAHSHUA is sin.
    Not teaching the FIRST FIVE BOOKS in an even greater sin.

    Like

  11. Barry K

    Sometimes I wonder if the hate responses thrown on to a dead man is written intentionally here by the foes of this blog to tarnish it. If you must insist on spewing hate, why not pray and ask God to help you be patient and wait until the man is buried first, at least out of respect for the family members. Or if you still insist, why not carry placards at the burial site. Brethen, show some good human traits and decency first before your ‘heavenly piety’.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Barry – the problem with heretics is that people will applaud their lives and end up burning with them in the lake of eternal fire. Your idea of ‘hate’ is incredibly naive, pathetic and gives us insight how backward your concept of love and truth really is. If you had love, you would love your God and neighbour to the point you would warn them of such dangerous men. Is Wagner burning in hell for his false prophetic and apostolic ministry. Christ says – YES – simply because that is what he stated in Matthew 7.

      On another note, God said the following about the deceasd Esau, “Jacob I love, Esau I hated.” Are you going to point the finger at God and slander his name for being a hater?

      Like

  12. thinker

    Please show bible chapter and verse where Jesus/ apostles state your claim. Thanks in advance.

    Like

  13. Barry K

    Churchwatch – I am not unfamiliar with WOF teachings. I grew up in a muslim majority country, and was saved thru no human agent but simply by a piece of soiled tract which someone discarded away and that was the very first time I got to know the gospel and was saved by His grace. My early years was with the Baptist church but 10 years down the road, I turn hyper charismatic. I am glad that many exposé by sites like those of yours and John MacArthur’s help me realise I was deceived. Now I am am worshipping in a reform church.
    However I am prepared to say without doubt that there are still many charismatics who are very godly, sometimes putting me and many I see in reform churches to shame. Peter might be sincerely wrong in doctrines, but that is not the same as saying he does not love His Heavenly Father. If we are discerning as we claim we are, we should be concern for the family first even if we are urgently concerned about warning others. There is another time and place for that. In the meantime, what would unbelievers think if they happen to come into this blog and read the discussion.Peter Wagner burning in hell ? I would not dare say that myself. I am no prophet nor angel.

    Like

    • Barry – we appreciate your thoughts. However the scriptures themselves tell us the fate of false teachers. The “fruit” of C. Peter Wagner’s theology is spiritually destroying millions of lives around the world to this day. Maybe he realized and repented before he went to his reward? There’s that hope.

      Matthew 7:14-16 “But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?…”

      Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.

      Like

    • “Is it harsh or judgmental to say that C. Peter Wagner has not passed into glory as Charisma News, and others would lead us to believe? No, it is not judgmental or insensitive to speak the truth. Many may criticize me or Pulpit & Pen for striking while the proverbial iron is still hot, but there is no better time in which to speak truth. Truth is not a respecter of time, emotions, people’s state of minds or what public deems as proper etiquette. Truth only knows one thing, that is must be proclaimed. As Christians, Apologists of the faith once delivered, and Polemicist we must be ready always to speak the truth; no matter the minute, the hour, or the day the truth must go forth. From where do we gather our truth? We receive our final authority, our truth, on all matters from the sufficiency of the closed canon of Scripture — God’s Word.”

      http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/10/23/ed-stetzer-honors-nar-heretic-neo-montanist-and-church-growth-charlatan-c-peter-wagners-passing/

      Cheers, Team Churchwatch.

      Like

  14. Brilliant article .. wake up and smell the coffee folks, the NAR circus is full of #dingbats & #wackerdoodles .. judgemental, I say not .. I once was amongst them and in His mercy He set me free ..

    Like

  15. Dave Baichtal

    These comments are why people hate the church . I would bet each if you has no crowd following you .

    Like

    • thinker

      The real reason is verses 18-20. Unrepentant sinners love sin and lies/ other sinners and liars and hate those who expose it/them. They want to remain in spiritual darkness.
      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A16-21&version=KJV

      Like

    • SolaScriptura

      “I would bet each if you has no crowd following you .”

      Way far better to have no crowd following you, than to deceive millions upon millions of gullible people with false teachings and heretical lunacies like Wagner did.

      Like

    • SolaScriptura

      “These comments are why people hate the church .”

      That is absolutely untrue.

      People hate the church for all kinds of reasons, and they all boil down to the really hate God.

      Then, they use comments like some of those found here as their excuse for hating God. But in reality, they hate God. That’s the bottom line. They would rather blame everybody else for all kinds of stupid excuses, then ever humble themselves and admit that Jesus is God and they need Him as their Savior.

      Like

    • Because Christianity is all about the crowd?

      Like

    • THC

      “Because Christianity is all about the crowd?”

      Unfortunately it is at Hillsong. Just get the Naked Cowboy up on the stage with lots of shouting and cheering, and you have a biblical Hillsong gathering….. a lewd and worldly crowd following each other straight into apostasy.

      Like

  16. Titus

    Warner was a great man of God. We celebrate a life well lived.

    Like

    • alleycat

      “Warner was a great man of God.”

      You have to use a very warped set of criteria, to come up with that very bizarre statement.

      Like

  17. Sheryl

    Dave, no, these comments are not why people hate the church – they hate God because of their sin nature that is spiritually dead. God stated that clearly in His word. Jesus said they hated Him and, thus, they hate true believers. But there’s a big false “church” out there that’s inclusive, tolerant, and preaching love and unity unto all. THAT church is accepted by many because its part of the world. And unlike that cool, entertaining false church with a relevant, hip pastor drawing a crowd, true believers aren’t interested in developing a following of their own disciples. In fact, that might be a good indicator that they’re not sticking to Truth. True believers are following Jesus, who leads His sheep on the narrow path, not the broad road. And only sheep follow the Shepherd. The crowds of goats don’t like the sound of His voice nor will embrace His doctrine or exclusivity. So you can follow a personality along with the crowd or you can be content to be a part of the designated “few” following the Master. Or even alone, if necessary.

    Like

  18. Racz

    Read: 2 Peter 2. Did Peter tolerate false teachers? Was he unloving or a hateful person? Every book in the NT minus one warns about these exact people. Was every writer of the NT unloving? This man has teams going around the world claiming to raise the dead! Where were his people on Friday, why couldn’t they help their guru? This is very disturbing stuff that in no way resembles the The God of the Bible. That whole outfit serves another Jesus, another gospel.

    Like

    • clemsmont

      “That whole outfit serves another Jesus, another gospel.”

      It should even be taken a step further. That whole outfit does NOT teach the biblical Gospel nor Teachings. That whole outfit leads thousands of people ASTRAY. That whole outfit teaches TONS of unbiblical garbage. That whole outfit generates LOADS of CONFUSION.

      That whole New Apostolic Reformation outfit did not come as a movement of God. There is only one other source, it had to be of the Devil. There is no other POSSIBLE, FEASIBLE, OR ACCEPTABLE EXPLANATION. PERIOD.

      God is NOT the author of confusion. The Devil is.

      Like

  19. Dr A.

    Why don’t you invest your time in building up the body of Christ rather than tearing it down. None of us has any right to criticize another believer unless we first have fasted and prayed for them.
    Pray and fast before you write.

    Like

    • “Why don’t you invest your time in building up the body of Christ rather than tearing it down. ”
      Well if you can’t see that is what we have invested our time in, it makes us question what you’ve invested your time in…

      Like

    • lonnie

      “Pray and fast before you write.”

      It is obvious this is something you did not do, before writing here. This article is dead-on.

      “Why don’t you invest your time in building up the body of Christ rather than tearing it down.”

      Again, more advice needed by NAR, not by the article nor by the poster community here. The NAR is tearing down the Body of Christ, not this article, not these posters. The NAR is made up of false teachers and false teachings which are not helping the Body of Christ one little bit.

      Dr A, we are instructed by the Bible to point out those teaching falsehoods, that is not tearing down the Body of Christ, it is building up the Body of Christ in the truth. Why do you reject the Scriptures that instruct us to avoid those teaching divisive things? Point them out, and void them.

      Like

  20. Lone Ranger

    I’m glad I left organized religion behind. What a bunch of self righteous pricks. You can ask 100 people to interpret a single verse of scripture and you get 100 different interpretations.

    Like

  21. Sheryl

    Lone Ranger –

    There’s only ONE correct interpretation. God is not the author of confusion.

    True believers don’t seek out man’s interpretation, but seek to find God’s interpretation – the correct meaning which was inspired by the Holy Spirit through the original authors. That’s the only meaning that counts. Only men (or women) who wish to mislead create their own meanings. So be careful who you trust.

    Like

  22. Racz

    You shouldn’t ask 100 people to interpret a verse, it’s the Holy Spirit that brings you into all truths. So I would say that was your first problem. I left the organized church building too, but because they weren’t teaching truth, infact they weren’t teaching at all.

    Like

  23. doggie

    “I’m glad I left organized religion behind.”

    You were never a part of it. The angels won’t need to separate you with the rest of the Tares, you have already separated yourself by your own admitting.

    Like

  24. Morrie

    So now Wagner will be spending eternity in his very own private fire tunnel.

    I do hope he likes it there.

    Like

  25. So I guess you forgot to add the part where you tell anyone who reads the article to pray for his family and friends as well as anyone impacted by his life and ministry? Or do we not pray for people who have wrong beliefs?

    Like

  26. Barry K

    Morris,
    The angels rejoices when someone gets saved, not when someone burns in hell and to joke about it as a private fire tunnel. This kind of comments cannot be from a sound mind. If this is the way that you think will warn others against false teachings you are mistakenly wrong. It will only push many away from you and what you stand for. This blog erred in letting such comments in.

    Like

    • Morris pointed out a heretical flaw in C. Peter Wagner’s theology. Is he reaping what he has sown into people’s lives by endorsing and promoting “fire tunnels”? We didn’t err in letting Morris speak what just may be a very sad reality.

      Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.

      Like

  27. david

    I’m wondering who will get CPW’s “mantel”. Maybe Benny Hinn,? We all know what kind of “mantel covetier” he is. Or maybe he sowed to Chucky Peirce and it will have super-duper powers that no one has ever seen since Elijah or something like that. But then who knows maybe the NAR will have it on EBAY and auction it off there and then it falls into enemy hands like the LDS, CATHOLICS, or even worse the BAPTISTS!!!!!! What a book this would be, and RICK JOINER could go into the enemies camp and steal it and deliver it back to the “generals” of “lard” as they say in texas. The End

    Like

    • oreganome d.

      “I’m wondering who will get CPW’s ‘mantel’”.

      Patricia King should get it so she can ‘display’ it on one of her delusional Extreme Errors episodes.

      Like

  28. Sheryl

    I would point out to Barry that God is just in condemning those who twist His word and preach a false gospel which does not exalt His beloved Son, and His angels are in agreement with Him and not grieving over any human who is punished as the enemy of the cross of Jesus Christ. People need to contend for the faith and stop valuing deceivers over Jesus and His truth. Those whom God is saving will be drawn to the truth, so if people are “pushed away,” that is just an indication of their hard heart.

    Like

  29. Barry K

    Sheryl,
    In war, even enemies in fox holes battle front have more humane hearts. They often allow a time of cease fire for dead bodies to be recovered. Here the family is grieving and we won’t even give them some space. And we dare quote Jesus as an example to justify our rush and impatience to say the things we did; problem is we are in reality not one tiny bit like Him and yet presume to think that our hurting the family members in their time of grieving is thus justified. If you think this is a right approach, then carrying placards at the burial site might be more effective. You will surely get free coverage around the world and be able to warn more people against Peter Wagner and his false teachings. Reminds me of the Baptist pastor and his members carrying anti gay playcards at funerals of soldiers.There are charismatic strange fires but there are also strange reformers.

    Like

  30. Sheryl

    Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:60

    Like

  31. Laurel Webster

    I don’t know if Peter was off in his doctrine. All I know he was a very kind and loving man. He flew all the way
    from California to Massachusetts to have a pray service for my uncle. My uncle was healed, by the way also.
    I was glad to have known him. Laurel Webster

    Like

    • “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.” Matt 23:15

      Like

  32. Barry K

    Sheryl
    “Those whom God is saving will be drawn will be drawn to the truth, so if people are pushed away,that is an indication of their hard hearts” . So why do you need to ‘ help’ God by making uncalled for and unnecessary insensitive remarks since it is He who draws the elect and not you, or you think you ‘heard’ Him tell you to do it. You think God appreciate your help ? If so , go hold play cards at Peters burial site and ‘help’ In proclaiming the Kingdom of God.

    Like

  33. Morrie

    @Barry,

    “The angels rejoices when someone gets saved, not when someone burns in hell and to joke about it as a private fire tunnel.”

    Wagner made his bed and now he has to lie in it. If he didn’t want such comments made after his demise, then he should have preached the truth instead of spewing out endless nonsense on behalf of the father of lies.

    “Here the family is grieving […]”

    Paul said “For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain”. If Wagner’s family really believed that he belonged to God, they wouldn’t be grieving, but would rather rejoice in the knowledge that he has entered heaven and is with God. Money-grubbing apostates and their blind fellow-travellers want to have their cake and eat it too, but that’s simply not possible – as it is written, one cannot serve two masters. Wagner made conscious decisions to go down the path that he did, and he is now finding out just how inescapable is the law of sowing and reaping.

    Like

  34. Barry K

    Tony T
    What due diligence did she do ; like a one liner verse taken out of context “let the dead bury their own dead but you go and proclaim the Kingdom of God. ” ? So she proclaimed the Kingdom of God by insulting and hurting family members during their time of grief? Her due deligence is on par with WOF ( maybe better) in taking verses out of context to justify her position and comments.So good job, maybe many will come to the truth by her due diligence. I was warned of strange charismatic fires but never strange reformers(not all reformers but a small fringe group like here. )
    When all have quieten down and when you reflect back , you will realise it was unnecessary to insult and hurt the grieving family in the name of defending and proclaiming the Kingdom of God. God does not need that kind of help. And Tony T , what due diligence did you do to justify defending her and others here in hurting the family? If this is ‘DISCERNMENT COUNTRY’ , it is lacking in one crucial biblical ingredient and that is discernment from a sound mind as shown in the emotional frenzy here.
    Cheers

    Like

  35. Barry K

    Tony T
    ” You need to toughen up”. After hurting the family of the late Peter Wagner , you are actually telling them to toughen up and accept the truth. If you still don’t get it, you are really confused indeed, not me. Fire tunnels, burning in hell etc. and you say it is not emotional outburst. And you don’t care one bit about the hurts on the family , telling them to bury their dead while you proclaim the Kingdom by insults. God’s Kingdom proclaimed by hurting the family of the dead ? What wacko. Even WOF do better. But I am so glad you only represent a small minority of strange fringe group of reformers, the fringe that will even spew out strange fires to hurt the mourners and dare call it proclaiming the Kingdom.
    Cheers.

    Like

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