Holly Pivec was invited for an interview on the Naked Bible podcast, where she warned her hosts about the dangers of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). To continue the discussion on the NAR, the hosts decided to invite Dr Michael Brown in a follow-up podcast.
In Pivec’s interview, she even warned the hosts that people in the NAR downplay their apostolic titles and downplay even the existence of this movement. She gave Dr Michael Brown as an example of someone who downplay’s it’s existence.
What was breathtaking was not necessarily the details and depth of Pivec’s discussion – it was what Dr Michael Brown did with his interview in light of the scholarly evidence presented by Holly Pivec.
Brown simply capitalized on the ignorance of the hosts to question everything Pivec said and then misled the hosts in defense of his ‘apostolic’ friends and his association with the movement. He even downplayed the role of C. Peter Wagner in developing this movement to prominence in Evangelicalism.
The brilliance of his deception led the hosts to conclude the following:
“There’s no big illuminati NAR conspiracy. There’s no- there doesn’t seem to be some organised plot within the church. I feel like I can calm down a little bit.”
No one should ‘calm down’. We have false teachers parading as ‘Apostles and Prophets’ in the New Apostolic Reformation, ruthlessly taking over whole churches and denominations. C. Peter Wagner himself acknowledged this in his book ‘Churchquake!’ and even wrote the foreword of a book by one of his Apostle friends David Cartledge, ‘The Apostolic Revolution’. In this book Cartledge talks how he, along with fellow NARpostles Frank Houston, Yonggi Cho and Andrew Evans, peformed a coup d’état on the Australian Assemblies of God with their Apostolic and Prophetic ruffians. And that happened in 1977 – Wagner/Cartledge’s books emerging in 1998-2000. Since then, these ‘Apostles and Prophets’ have been exposed for conduct ranging from financial fraud to serial pedophilia, with horrific abuses of power and breaking government laws (some escaping legal consequences from their crimes).
Both Yonggi Cho (Michael Brown’s friend) and his ‘apostolic’ underling, Kong Hee, are also convicted felons in their own countries for financial mismanagement. So Michael Brown is without excuse for justifying the unjustifiable and pretending it doesn’t exist. (He must have one huge rug to sweep the NAR under.)
The image that comes to mind when listening to what Michael Brown said, reminds us how Jesus portrayed Satan himself in the parable of the sower (birds of the air eating the seed).
“The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.” Luke 8:12
No sooner does Pivec throw a warning out to the hosts, Michael Brown ‘swoops in and eats up’ the warning so they remain unaware of the dangers of the NAR.
Oddly enough, only a few months ago, Michael Brown claimed it was the ‘so-called NAR‘ and spoke of its ‘so-called apostles‘. Not only has he confessed to not reading the NAR literature of his friend C. Peter Wagner (leading apostle of the NAR movement) and others who openly talk about it, for some reason he thinks he is now an expert on the NAR even though he claims he is not part of it and puts it into the category of myth.
If this is true – why are there countless testimonies of people leaving the NAR? Are all of its victims now liars?
As we often hear Michael Brown promoting his own books on a very regular basis (daily on his own program) – don’t we have the right to expect that Michael Brown read the books/literature of his NARpostolic friends before speaking as a person of authority on the subject, especially on other Christian broadcasts?
We will examine his deception in this podcast in a future article. Below, you can hear the interviews of Holly Pivec and Michael Brown.
The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) seems to quite clearly justify labeling it a movement or denomination. Millions of people around the world are part of its network of churches. However, many NAR leaders and advocates deny that it’s a denomination or movement. Many Christians who are attracted by NAR teachings and practices have no idea that something called the NAR even exists. For those aware of its influence and presence within Christianity, the NAR has branded itself as representing the return of authoritative apostles and prophets to the modern church, complete with miracles such as healing and raising the dead. On this episode, we talk to Holly Pivec, an authority on the NAR, to learn what it is, what its defining characteristics are, and how we should think about its teachings.
NOTE: Shortly after our interview, Holly Pivec informed us that her statement about Michael Brown teaching at C. Peter Wagner’s school was inaccurate. Dr. Brown is the founder of FIRE School of Ministry in Charlotte, NC. The doctrinal statement for that school is located here and includes a statement on modern apostles and prophets.
Source: Naked Bible 179: What is the New Apostolic Reformation?, The Naked Bible Podcast, http://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/naked-bible-179-what-is-the-new-apostolic-reformation/, Published September 30 2017. (Accessed 10/10/2017)
This episode continues our discussion of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) from the previous episode. Our guest on this episode is Dr. Michael L. Brown, biblical scholar and host of the well-known radio show, Line of Fire. Dr. Brown has long been part of the charismatic wing of Christianity and has ministered in a wide variety of capacities in that context. He has also been a persistent internal critic of the abuses and fringe behaviors within the charismatic movement. In this episode Dr. Brown relates his own experience with the NAR as an infrequent point of discussion within charismatic circles. He therefore doubts its validity as a movement, though the general influence of charismatic ministry has had great impact despite clear abuses in doctrine and practice.
Source: Naked Bible 180: Continuing the NAR Conversation with Dr. Michael L. Brown, The Naked Bible Podcast, http://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/naked-bible-180-continuing-the-nar-conversation-with-dr-michael-l-brown/, Published October 07 2017. (Accessed 10/10/2017)
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